huge tax breaks for Leaf (rated at 99 MPG)
11-24-10, 02:00 AM
#61
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Sure, now they are. But they weren't back in the late 90's/early 2000s, which I believe was the point of this discussion. That point being of course that the battery patent that Chevron has been sitting on for the past 15 years used NiMH batteries.
11-24-10, 05:55 AM
#63
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Take your own advice.
11-24-10, 07:00 AM
#64
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my daily RT commute is 52 miles x 5 days a week.
I only paid $18.8K for my (used) Prius, so IMO its well worth it....I needed a 4 door car so I figured I might as well get something that gets great MPG, quiet comfy cruiser...my wife has a Audi TT that we usually drive on weekends.
I only paid $18.8K for my (used) Prius, so IMO its well worth it....I needed a 4 door car so I figured I might as well get something that gets great MPG, quiet comfy cruiser...my wife has a Audi TT that we usually drive on weekends.
12-02-10, 08:29 AM
#65
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Q: All I really care about is saving money on gas. How much will an electric car save me?
A: For a purely electric car like the Nissan Leaf, a cost comparison would be very straightforward. The EPA assumes you drive 15,000 miles a year, gas is at $3.20 a gallon, and electricity costs 11 cents per kilowatt hour. In those conditions, it's estimated the Leaf would cost you $561 a year in electricity. For the Nissan Versa, a similar-sized gas-powered car, it'd be about $1,444 a year for gasoline. So your fuel savings compared to the Leaf would run $883 a year.
Honestly, even if an electric car costs the exact same to operate as a gas powered car, I'd rather have pay for electricity and charge at night in my garage rather than kiss Saudi Arabia's *** for more oil.
A: For a purely electric car like the Nissan Leaf, a cost comparison would be very straightforward. The EPA assumes you drive 15,000 miles a year, gas is at $3.20 a gallon, and electricity costs 11 cents per kilowatt hour. In those conditions, it's estimated the Leaf would cost you $561 a year in electricity. For the Nissan Versa, a similar-sized gas-powered car, it'd be about $1,444 a year for gasoline. So your fuel savings compared to the Leaf would run $883 a year.
Honestly, even if an electric car costs the exact same to operate as a gas powered car, I'd rather have pay for electricity and charge at night in my garage rather than kiss Saudi Arabia's *** for more oil.
Last edited by bagwell; 12-02-10 at 10:28 AM.
12-02-10, 10:13 AM
#66
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- RANGE! Build me an electric sedan with a 200 mile range, and I'd be all over it like stink on a monkey. Sure, a Leaf would be fine on most days, but what about all the times that I want to take a trip? Very often, I go someplace that's just 50 miles away (Boston, for example), and I'd need it to do over 100 miles for the round trip. Leaf can't even do that. And you can't reasonably charge it publicly yet.
- Price. They're still too expensive to be cost savers. You can't just look at gas savings. When the car itself costs $10K more than a comparable gas powered car, it ain't saving you money.
- As a result of range limitation, you're forced to have a second car. Perhaps you can argue that most households already have two cars, and that solves the problem. There's a lot of single people with one car out there though. Point is, cars shouldn't have to be backed up by a second car because one has a handicap. That's the beauty with gas. I can drive it 3,000 miles from MA to CA continuously without concern. Imagine a world with just electric cars with limited range. No more road trips.
No more real American freedom.
12-02-10, 02:28 PM
#67
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It does, because it'll let the GOV have even more control over your life... Just wait til the day you need a strip search to operate your own vehicle. j/k!
Anyway, I don't like the tax incentives for this or any other "green" car. People should drive it because they WANT to, not because their purchase is being subsidized. I also don't like the fact that this potentially already hurts the manufacturers because as soon as those incentives dry up people may not be willing to pay the full price of these cars w/o any sort of incentives. Realistically, the person that has the $$$$ to buy these cars anywhere near sticker really isn't buying it because they are saving tons of money on fuel costs or anything like that. They are buying it because they like and they CAN.
Anyway, I don't like the tax incentives for this or any other "green" car. People should drive it because they WANT to, not because their purchase is being subsidized. I also don't like the fact that this potentially already hurts the manufacturers because as soon as those incentives dry up people may not be willing to pay the full price of these cars w/o any sort of incentives. Realistically, the person that has the $$$$ to buy these cars anywhere near sticker really isn't buying it because they are saving tons of money on fuel costs or anything like that. They are buying it because they like and they CAN.
:I'd love to be able to buy an all electric car. There's just a few things standing in the way right now.
- RANGE! Build me an electric sedan with a 200 mile range, and I'd be all over it like stink on a monkey. Sure, a Leaf would be fine on most days, but what about all the times that I want to take a trip? Very often, I go someplace that's just 50 miles away (Boston, for example), and I'd need it to do over 100 miles for the round trip. Leaf can't even do that. And you can't reasonably charge it publicly yet.
- Price. They're still too expensive to be cost savers. You can't just look at gas savings. When the car itself costs $10K more than a comparable gas powered car, it ain't saving you money.
- As a result of range limitation, you're forced to have a second car. Perhaps you can argue that most households already have two cars, and that solves the problem. There's a lot of single people with one car out there though. Point is, cars shouldn't have to be backed up by a second car because one has a handicap. That's the beauty with gas. I can drive it 3,000 miles from MA to CA continuously without concern. Imagine a world with just electric cars with limited range. No more road trips. No more real American freedom.
- RANGE! Build me an electric sedan with a 200 mile range, and I'd be all over it like stink on a monkey. Sure, a Leaf would be fine on most days, but what about all the times that I want to take a trip? Very often, I go someplace that's just 50 miles away (Boston, for example), and I'd need it to do over 100 miles for the round trip. Leaf can't even do that. And you can't reasonably charge it publicly yet.
- Price. They're still too expensive to be cost savers. You can't just look at gas savings. When the car itself costs $10K more than a comparable gas powered car, it ain't saving you money.
- As a result of range limitation, you're forced to have a second car. Perhaps you can argue that most households already have two cars, and that solves the problem. There's a lot of single people with one car out there though. Point is, cars shouldn't have to be backed up by a second car because one has a handicap. That's the beauty with gas. I can drive it 3,000 miles from MA to CA continuously without concern. Imagine a world with just electric cars with limited range. No more road trips.
No more real American freedom.and even though the prius does get great gas milaeage and has a useful range (as opposed to leaf), it's seriously limited on room - i know, i've looked at it a couple of times. the rear hatch area is so short in height as to be nearly useless.
12-02-10, 02:39 PM
#68
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so here we are with
- a leaf that is maybe ok for urban short distance commuters and doesn't use gas (and you're screwed if you run out of electric)
- a prius that is ok for short and long distance commuters and is frugal with gas
- a volt which doesn't use gas for maybe 25mi. and gas after with lame mileage so is like a leaf or prius at twice the price (epic fail)
- some other hybrids which have better utility and less economy than prius (cake and eat it models) but cost a lot more than their non-hybrid counterparts and typically don't pay for hybrid feature
- a zillion other vehicles at all price, size and economy points that use gas
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