I give it one more generation before these vans hits high-40s. As time goes on, we throw in more airbags, cup holders, bigger entertainment screens, ottomans, computers, etc. No way the manufacturers would want to pay the difference for all these features so yes, I think it will eventually hit 50k. What's sad is that we aren't even talking about luxury brands.

 

Not to mention basic inflation haha

 

And we know how well the very expensive lux brand R-class Benz has sold....

 

Yes it is my opinion that Honda's suspension tuning is wrong. It is my opinion that the suspension tuning is unsuitable for North American roads.

Your argument goes both ways. Honda sales still pale in comparison to GM, Ford, and Toyota. Hyundai/Kia is catching up to Honda fast, and Nissan is also improving. Also lets not forget Chrysler. Honda could easily end up being the #4 or #5 automaker in the US in a few years.

Despite the big problems Toyota had early this year, Honda sales did not benefit whatsoever. It is clear that Honda is most directly competing right now with Hyundai and Nissan, not Toyota.

Thanks for putting up the 2009 data, but we are in 2010 now and I specifically mentioned 2010 sales. The fact is the Town & Country is the top-selling minivan in 2010 so far in terms of overall sales. If you meant to specifically talk about only retail sales, you should have mentioned that.

Look at my above reply to madoka, and look at the front end clunking thread I posted from odyclub.com.

Whether it should or shouldn't do that is irrelevant if a group of Odyssey owners have experienced shuddering or clunking when the suspension is loaded or unloaded. Who's fault is it if some Odysseys are not driving the way they should? It's strictly Honda's fault if their own new vehicles don't perform properly to specifications. That thread shows some people did have subframe/front assembly or subframe-related problems.

Most reviews have mentioned the Sienna as having a more refined and comfortable ride, so what's your point? You take some, you give some. While the Odyssey might have a more controlled ride than a non-SE Sienna, the trade off is less refinement and comfort, particularly over rough roads, potholes, and highway joints.

 

I'm a Toyota guy at heart, but when shopping for a new van in 2008 the Sienna did not overwhelm me. Ultimately, I preferred the more athletic ride and aggressive looks of the Odyssey.

Now that I've seen the new Odyssey, I will be keeping my '08.
If I were buying a van now, I would probably get the Sienna.

 

From Edmunds when they compared the NEW Sienna to the previous gen Odyssey:

Behind the Wheel
Toyota has changed its approach to ride quality in the Sienna compared to the other family-oriented vehicles in its product lineup. It doesn't float down the highway and instead stays settled on the road, and the result inspires far more confidence. But don't get us wrong, there's still a huge emphasis on comfort, something we found agreeable except when rolling across the sort of choppy concrete slabs you find on overused freeways, especially here in California. Despite its long wheelbase, the Sienna's ride is too busy over such surfaces.

For all the Sienna's newfound emphasis on driving dynamics, the Honda Odyssey remains the leader when it comes to the way a minivan should drive. Though the Odyssey is massive, it still drives like a car in a way that no other manufacturer can achieve. There's a sublime balance between comfort and just enough control to feel safe and reassured. Honda has nailed the subtleties."

And in choosing between the Sienna and the Odyssey, this is what Ask Cars had to say:

"With that being said, we picked the Honda Odyssey as our Family Car of the Year for 2007, as explained below:

“The Odyssey is one of the highest-ranking of Cars.com's Best Bet models, exhibiting good to excellent performance in many areas: reliability history, crash tests, quality, drivability, refinement and resale value. It has all the important safety and convenience features of its competitors, some of which Honda invented. Power doors that reverse at the slightest obstruction and an optional rearview camera make the Odyssey as kid-friendly as any car you'll find.

“What puts the Odyssey over the top is engine technology that gives it the best gas mileage for long family trips, even in a model loaded with options like a video entertainment system. Within the driver's reach are every necessary control and the most ergonomic touch-screen navigation option sold.

“Starting with its large, bright headlights, this is a meticulously well-thought-out van. The Odyssey is simply one of the best-executed vehicles of any type that we've ever driven.”

And in a 3 way comparison review between the Sienna, Dodge and the Odyssey:

"So far, all seems wonderful with the Toyota. But it falls apart—for me at least—in the handling department. It is much more softly sprung than the others. In turns it leans readily and understeers with a passion. I’m aware that minivans tend to be driven very casually, but I found the sponginess of the Toyota’s suspension unsettling. Very light steering also doesn’t help. I don’t mean to suggest that the Sienna is unsafe—I don’t think it would easily roll. But I simply did not feel confident driving it.

The Dodge was fitted with a “touring suspension.” It was the firmest of the trio, with much heavier steering than the others. Usually this would appeal to me, and as before I did find the Dodge easy to drive. But the steering was too heavy, and the heaviness was not simply the price for great feedback, as their was no more than in the others.

The firmness of the Honda’s suspension and the weight of its steering falls between the other two. It is the easiest and most confidence-inspiring to drive. "

Argue all you want, but I believe that's now four to your fat nothing.

 

This proves what exactly? That auto writers and journalists like Hondas? Because handling and a stiff suspension are high priorities for a minivan, right, that totally makes sense .

 

Guys knock off the jabs. Not even sure why a van thread is so big

 

Retail sale is what matters. Fleet owners do not care as much about comfort. They want what's 'good enough' for the job while staying within the budget. The Odyssey generally cost more and Honda doesn't like to sell much of their vehicles to fleets. It doesn't make sense to buy a fleet of expensive Odysseys to beat around when a base Caravan can do the same job while saving thousands of dollars.

The front end clunking dealt with the strut and/or the steering column being insufficiently greased. Both issues were resolved. It's not like Toyota never had clunking noises before. The thread was from 2006, a year into that generation which isn't surprising at all. All cars get their kinks worked out toward the end of their life. No one really had to get their subframe replaced. Even if they did, they are in the minority. It would be ridiculous to assume all 3GS have flaws just because just because some owners experienced rattling on earlier year 3GS.

Exactly my point. Some owners prefer one ride over the other as evident since both Sienna and Odyssey sell like no other. Neither Toyota or Honda has the 'perfect' ride otherwise one will have a monopoly over the other. The Sienna rides smoother, but is not as controlled. That is not to say it's going to drive like a boat. Likewise, the Odyssey is firmer, but not firm enough to make it not smooth. The ride is very tolerable and it's quite an exaggeration to think it's going to veer off the road because it's not ultra smooth.


Like I said, if the ride wasn't good then Honda wouldn't be able to sell these at all. The fact that it's an expensive vehicle and the best seller for years (retail) tells us many find the ride acceptable.

 

Honda threads seem to be the most popular on ClubLexus. On every other forum, Lexus is most talked about

 

fixed.

but seriously folks... about minivan costs... ya know, steel is expensive and those minivans use a LOT of it. and doing those dual sliding doors (that are now motorized) isn't as easy as regular doors, and minivans probably have a bajillion miles of wiring in them too, not to mention enough airbags to catch satellites falling out of space... it all adds up.

 

Honestly, the Odyssey to me feels clumsier than the Sienna. It's like a Tahoe but 2 feet shorter and with VTEC.