SLegacy99

Alot has to do with the car that you learn on. BMWs, or Toyotas are good. I spent most of my time with a Subaru clutch and it was challenging. I used to take my bro's Impreza to hills and practice starting from a standstill.

What I don't understand is that there have been autos for a long time, yet manuals retain that fun quality. Do people not feel that way about a stick anymore? I think that it is a blast and I personally enjoy trying to start on inclines without rolling backward.

mmarshall

Well, you may have been one of those who did get used to constant clutch and shift-work in gridlock, but the point I was making is that many people don't....even if they think they can. For them, it is not an 'LOL" matter, as it may be for you.

I myself am somewhere in the middle, between the two. When my knees aren't painful (and, due to good medication, they are much better now that they were just a few years ago), I can drive a clutch even in D.C.-area gridlock, which is almost as bad as SoCal/L.A., but, as many note, it can be a PITA.

mmarshall

While opinions differ on the subject, many feel that the Honda Civic and Fit have what is probably the slickest and easiest-to-shift MT available in the American market, and I tend to agree. I find them to have the slickest FWD linkage available, with the Mazda Miata having perhaps the slickest and easiest RWD linkage.

Subaru MTs? Basically OK...a short-shift kit for many models is available, dealer-installed, but even so, Subaru's linkage is not quite as slick as Honda's.

One nice feature that (some) Subaru MT units have is the Hill-Holder feature that maintains brake-pressure while stopped on a hill, so that you don't roll back while the clutch is being released. That feature was actually invented in the 1950s with Studebaker, but Subaru is the only modern auto carmaker I know of that offers it.

Koma

iTrader: (3)

I drive my car daily in local roads (stop and go) and it's a 5speed manual. I really don't think the traffic thing is a legitimate excuse. Unless you have a race clutch, you shouldn't have too much issue clutching in and out often. Traffic in general is a pain.
If given the choice, I'll likely always get the manual. It's more fun to drive. Before my current car I've always driven auto it's just less fun to drive.

I can understand on luxo-barges (LS, S, 7, A8 etc.) you wouldn't want a stick because well you're probably buying that car to be comfortable. But if you want to drive a sporty car you want the manual it's just more fun to drive.

hwy1isf

iTrader: (1)

I used to agree that the Manual was more fun to drive, until I picked up the IS-F, and now would not have anything else but a paddle shift auto, and I have had plenty of manual sports cars. As for "sporty cars" just look and the trend in high end sports cars, like Lambo, Enzo Ferrari, the LF-A, each uses a variation of highbrid automatic transmission. Sequential shift, DCT, Ferrari Enzo features 6-speed Semi-Automatic transmission (F1 style).

Koma

iTrader: (3)

Well for a car that isn't that powerful (160hp) a manual is fun.
What I meant by sporty was just that sporty not sports car. I think the reason behind performance cars going away from manuals is because they can post up better performance figures with an automated transmission. I can understand for a limited volume car (supercars) to only offer one transmission but I still think for cars like the IS-F to have a manual offered would be nice.

I'm not saying that autos don't have their place because they do but I think that manuals shouldn't go away just because they can't shift as quick as a DSG.

IS-SV

I guess I'm falling into line with the trend, at least since mid-2009. Prior to that I've always had at least 1 manual tranny car in my garage for the last 15 years straight.

balutsc300

iTrader: (1)

yea your right it does take a toll on your legs, i remember this one time i got out of the gym and i had a cramp on my left leg and this happened when i was entering the freeway had to force my way to the clutch but i am also glad i didn't go with the racing clutch or that would have sucked for daily driving

LexFather

Driving feel really has nothing to do with it. In the past manuals offered three great benefits for consumers;
-CHEAPER
-MORE MPG
-FASTER

Today with new technology the opposite is now true in most instances!!! Manuals are now
-More expensive
-Less MPG
-Slower (in some cases)

Automatics are so good today they are making Manuals extinct. Ferrari will NO LONGER equip their cars with manuals. The 458 is the first with no manual option.

There will ALWAYS be a small market for manuals. However even Ford is offering a DUAL CLUTCH setup on its new Focus. That is the future.

For purity, nothing beats a manual, no doubt. For the feel and interaction there is nothing like it.

I've said it many times, the Nurburgring and other tracks are great to brag on but are they really great for us? In an attempt to go FASTER AND FASTER on the track to show their track ***** is larger than another brands, manuals are dropped for much faster automated systems.

So in return we do have faster cars but heavier and with less feel.

Sometimes I wonder did the best and brightest engineers lose the gotdamn plot? Or did they not have a choice?

As many have stated here most CANNOT drive manuals and don't want to learn. So the sports car makers and everyone made their cars with automatics so they could sell more. They had a choice, die with manuals or live on with automatics. Let me inform you 60% of the Porsches in Europe will be sold with PDK! With the rise of female wealth and their buying power, well they want automatics most of the time. Don't fool yourself though, most guys are the same.

Considering what the best and brightest did to the worldwide economy, I wouldn't be surprised.

Watch for some cars values to stay strong or get stronger as there will eventually be a "Mythical" image with driving/owning a manual.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, its important to separate sports cars from the rest of the market. Even if manual usage was 100% on sport cars, it still wouldn't make a dent in 5% overall manual usage, because sport cars only have a tiny share of the car market.

If I was to buy a weekend only sporty car, sure I'd get a manual. But for a daily driver, thanks, but no thanks.

LexFather

Which brings up another point. Sports cars today are bigger, full of luxuries and cupholders. As you stated sports cars are a tiny portion of the market and as I stated, automatics make them attractive to buy to more people.

SLegacy99

I spend alot of time perusing automotive websites and I very very rarely find what you have stated to be true. Few cars such as the 335, Gallardo, or the Fusion S have autos more efficient than MTs. But even with the BMWs quick shifting 7 speed, the reported times are no quicker than that of manually equipped car. What cars have an MT that is slower than the AT? What cars have MTs that are more expensive than the AT? I am interested to know.



BMWs are equipped with a hill holding feature.

Faymester

Thread needs a poll.

Do you DD a manual yes / no.

Maybe it's just me being in the minority here, but I'm sensing some uneducated bias against manuals.

Sorry, but unless you've DDed a manual I'm not sure you're in a position to say it's bad as a DD.

And Och, I'm calling you out. You said you opted for the automatic on your car so I've got an issue with you saying learning to drive manual didn't make you a better driver; it's not the learning to muddle your way through driving stick and doing an ok job of it that makes you better, it's driving stick every day in every circumstance.

It's how you corner, how you hill start with someone right on your bumper (W.O THE E-BRAKE PPL), it's how you slow down / rev match, not just how well you can up shift from the stop light - that's the easy part.

Knowing how to drive stick and actually being a manual driver are different; and I am completely comfortable in saying that before the Bimmer there was no way I was qualified to give a valid opinion on what it's like to be a manual driver.


edit: SLegacy99 - I just want to go on record saying I think that's one of the biggest cheat features ever (mine doesn't have that and I like it that way)

SLegacy99

My mom really liked it and I could see how you would want the hill holder feature in a heavier car. Driving the 3 series with it I realized that the one on my Subaru really only works when it wants to. Not something I rely on.

Faymester

^ for a big heavy car, I can see the argument in favor of it - I still think it's a cheat tho