ndk83

Why hasnt LExus wholly encorporated TOM'S as a subdivision of the Lexus brand? I mean if Benz has AMG, BMW has M and Audi has RS then it should make business sense for Lexus to encorporate TOM'S officially as a Lexus brand and not some certified Lexus Tuner.

Right now the F division that lexus is trying to start up doesnt exactly cut it. Sides the IS-F was made by a lexus employee who wanted to prove that it could work, so it was done internally with some tuning help from yamaha.

TOM'S has been a certified lexus/ toyota tuner for more than 20 years and have some racing pedigree. Both TOMS and Yamaha could work together with the Lexus engineers and create something much better than what either of the manufactureres are producing right now. Just a thought. I know that LExus has thought about this and decided its best to do it themselves (As evident with the F) but i still dont understand why they chose not to go that route

Rash

iTrader: (1)

Because that would be weird, it's like saying Benz should have Brabus instead of AMG.

I don't think Lexus wants a person's name as the brand of the AMG/M/RS competitor

ndk83

funny u mentioned that, AMG was a seperate company acquired by Mercedes back in the day, AMG was around before Brabus and AMG made some MB's into the fastest cars in the world . Additionally MB and AMG went into partnership in Racing Series. MB then went ahead and acquired AMG
(Brabus was not involved in any races. also Brabus top cars are actually tuned AMG engines.)

This is exactly what TOMS and Toyota/Lexus has done. Thats why TOMS is the certified tuner and not lets say WALD or any other company. TOMS tune exclusively Toyota/Lexus vehicles and engage in racing series as a partnership with Toyota/Lexus. They make some of the fastest Lexus around.

I know you were being sarcastic but there is truth to your humor. TOMS stands for Tachi Oiwa Motor Sport ( started by Nobuhide Tachi and Kiyoshi Oiwa ) AMG stands for Aufrecht Melcher Großaspach and it's also some dudes name (Hans Werner Aufrecht and Erhard Melcher, in a town called Großaspach,)

The parallels between TOM'S and AMG are insane. I think Lexus made a mistake with the F division. Instead they should have aquired a moajority Stake in TOM'S instead and went that route. Although the F is a great car, it isnt pushing any boundaries (think GTR) and its kinda disappointing.

ndk83

Also wanna add that TOMS and AMG both started off racing Toyota/ MB racecars before they partnered up to sell performance upgrades for road vehicles. I beleive only after success in racing did they take their technological know how and racing experience and try to apply it to the road cars

Another similarity is their style of tuning. They make sleeper cars, nothing loud and brash. To a non car guy, most likely wouldnt know the diff other than the cars goes fast as schit.

Also they both make luxury cars into more performace oriented cars.

TOMS to Toyota/Lexus is exactly what AMG is to Mercedes.

LexFather

B/C Lexus is conservative compared to Mercedes. Also its no coincidence Benz bought AMG when Lexus came out. THey know how much "prestige and image" mean to them so they made an AMG everything which is a superb move and makes people in a C220 or whatever feel golden.

The "halo" effect.

I am also a big TOMs fan myself and would have liked to see a partnership with Lexus. The IS-F though is no joke and it has pushed boundaries. Its the FIRST Japanese sedan to take on the M/AMG/RS and be a credible competitor.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

How about Alpina for BMW? Maybe Dinan? IMO, Lexus is truly stagnant with this F brand.. Where is my GS-F? How are sales of the IS-F at present?

LexFather

Were you bishing when BMW had only the M3 or Benz only had the C32 AMG? It takes time to expand your brand. They didn't just have a large M/AMG lineup overnight.
The C36 then C43 was the only official AMG car until the E55 came along in 1999. I believe the C32 debuted in 1993.

What we see TODAY is AMG churning out cars at will. It wasn't like that initially.

ndk83

lol at last sentance. TOMS is also very conservative though, even the upgrades, there is nothing crazy there like AMG offers, so its very much inline with Lexus' philosphy

True the IS-F came out before the GTR, but the GTR is raping bounderies. Come one who would have thought it would be beating Turbos and GT3's. While the ISF might be the first japanese sport sedan to take on the M3, they should have made it something phenomenal, they should have upped the power, beat the germans in their power game. It was never gonna win in the handling dept so they should have played on their forte, it should have atleast offered 460 hp or something in that range, a good 50 hp over the M3. While i shouldnt have called the F a joke, im still very disappointed

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Who is bishing? I have my own Tom's Lexus lol..



Sure it takes time to expand a brand and many driving enthusiasts are running out of it... Said enthusiasts will just end up shopping elsewhere for driving thrills..

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

F doesn't cut it?

Personally I'll take F over TOM'S any day of the week...

LexFather

The IS-F and GT-R are 2 completely different cars. The GT-R has always been a ***** out car. The latest one is sensational and yes has pushed more boundaries than the IS-F. It should, its targets were the 911 turbo.

That does not take away from the IS-F's accomplishments. It is the first truly credible effort from a Japanese brand to take on AMG/M/RS and does so very well. In reviews it has fared very well, the Europeans giving it higher praise than the mags here. Top Gear COULD NOT pick a winner with the IS-F/C63/RS4/M3. EVO gave the IS-F 5 stars and it is its 2nd pick behind the M3.

I won't debate your disappointment, however for Lexus of all brands to have a car and brand to battle M/AMG/RS is a feat in itself as this brands idea of excitement is offering an L-tuned package in 2000.

ndk83

yes they did start with one car which was the hammer, but in the early 90s they have C,SL and E AMG cars, with a new model coming out every year.

according to wiki

1986 Mercedes-Benz W126 560SEL 6L 32V AMG
1986 300E "Hammer" AMG
1992 300E-24V 3.4L E34 and E34T AMG
1993 E320 3.6L E36 and E36T AMG
1993-1994 E60 AMG
1995-1998 C36 AMG
1995, 1998-2001 SL73 AMG
1996-1998 SL60 AMG
1998-2000 C43 AMG
1998-2002 CLK-GTR AMG

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

You beat me to it

Lets not forget M3 first then a year later M5/M6 in the 80's for that other German brand.

LexFather

The hammer is legendary but was sold when AMG/Benz was seperate.
The first AMG caar was the C36, then became the C43. The other cars listed are limited production and barely available to the public. THe CLK GTR was a 1 million dollar car.

BTW, I have a very recent. Banzai article where they test the Toms IS 350 S/C. Its the only article I've seen on the full Toms IS. They liked it but it clearly is a step behind the IS-F.


Good posting everyone.




I remember this car and Autoweek posting "BADASS" on the cover when it debuted. They took some heat for the title Wonderful car!

ndk83

Hahaha, i didnt mean to compare the F to the GTR, but rather i wanted to comapred what the ISF did in its class to what the GTR did in its class. I guess i should have realise lexus is VERY conservative and its entrance into that m/rs/amg would have been too. oh well i had my hopes up. dont get me wrong the F is a good car and all, but all they did was compete in the market, they should have done more i feel. but i bet u the 2nd gen F will haul some serious *** and lay the germans some serious whippin