2009 Acura TL thread (merged threads, painted beak)
07-12-08, 11:46 PM
#121
^ +3 TRDFantasy. When Acura redesigned the 1G TL after only 2 years on the market, I loved the overall "VIP" look of the car, especially the interior and color choices. So when the 3G TL came out, the things that I really disliked were the big, matte silver 5-star grille on the front (instead of all-chrome like the TSX and 2G TL) and the overall loss of "VIP" more for sport.
The 2G TL had pretty nice seats that were pleated leather and seemed very high quality. The 3G TL, while having a nice interior, had cheaper-quality leather that looked much better (in design/shape) than they actually weared (they don't forgive as easily - meaning when you get up and out of the seat your buttprint is still there). I also didn't like how the TL looked pretty much like a blown up TSX and for a while got the 2 cars mixed up. But at least the TSX was good looking and the bigger TL was very good looking. And with the '07 refresh, especially in Type-S form, the TL was pretty much the best looking car Acura ever produced (that and the NSX).
This design is pretty much hideous. And I drive an '05 TL 6-spd. At certain angles the car doesn't look that bad but the front grille and the whole rear of the car are absolute deal killers. At least with the grille you could always go aftermarket. I don't know how you could go "aftermarket" with the entire rear end. And yeah, the rear just screams "Civic Coupe Si." It's like Acura sent the current 3G TL away for the summer and the TL got all fat. Kinda like seeing your formerly hot ex that you broke up with last spring so she got all depressed and sat down and ate her a.ss off, gained a 100 lbs. then you see her for the first time in the fall semester and you're like, "What the f-- happened to you?!"
I've been looking to replace my '05 with an '08 TL-S but the car being FWD and "only" 286hp and no push-button start, iPhone integration, etc. has fallen too far behind the times to be a replacement. I'm looking at anything between a G37 to an ISF or M3 (undecided on the E90 or E92) as a replacement.
I'll agree that the new TSX is much better looking in person than in the photos, and while I'll say that there are some pretty nice angles about this car the grille and the entire rear of the car are just too damn offensive for my taste. I think Acura's sales are about to plummet even more. And there's no way in hell I'm ever going to consider this thing.
And I agree, if it came down to it, I'd get a Genesis over this thing anyday. With their bloated, offensive designs and higher prices, there's simply no financial sense to choose this car over any other competitor. Esp. since a 4.6L Genesis with 375 hp is expected to cost roughly the same as an '08 TL Type-S (~$38K - $40K-ish).
At the end of the day this thing is *only* slightly better looking than the uglified '09 RL refresh. But that's kind of like saying having a 300 lb. gf is better than having a 350 lb. gf. But why would you want either?
The 2G TL had pretty nice seats that were pleated leather and seemed very high quality. The 3G TL, while having a nice interior, had cheaper-quality leather that looked much better (in design/shape) than they actually weared (they don't forgive as easily - meaning when you get up and out of the seat your buttprint is still there). I also didn't like how the TL looked pretty much like a blown up TSX and for a while got the 2 cars mixed up. But at least the TSX was good looking and the bigger TL was very good looking. And with the '07 refresh, especially in Type-S form, the TL was pretty much the best looking car Acura ever produced (that and the NSX).
This design is pretty much hideous. And I drive an '05 TL 6-spd. At certain angles the car doesn't look that bad but the front grille and the whole rear of the car are absolute deal killers. At least with the grille you could always go aftermarket. I don't know how you could go "aftermarket" with the entire rear end. And yeah, the rear just screams "Civic Coupe Si." It's like Acura sent the current 3G TL away for the summer and the TL got all fat. Kinda like seeing your formerly hot ex that you broke up with last spring so she got all depressed and sat down and ate her a.ss off, gained a 100 lbs. then you see her for the first time in the fall semester and you're like, "What the f-- happened to you?!"
I've been looking to replace my '05 with an '08 TL-S but the car being FWD and "only" 286hp and no push-button start, iPhone integration, etc. has fallen too far behind the times to be a replacement. I'm looking at anything between a G37 to an ISF or M3 (undecided on the E90 or E92) as a replacement.
I'll agree that the new TSX is much better looking in person than in the photos, and while I'll say that there are some pretty nice angles about this car the grille and the entire rear of the car are just too damn offensive for my taste. I think Acura's sales are about to plummet even more. And there's no way in hell I'm ever going to consider this thing.
And I agree, if it came down to it, I'd get a Genesis over this thing anyday. With their bloated, offensive designs and higher prices, there's simply no financial sense to choose this car over any other competitor. Esp. since a 4.6L Genesis with 375 hp is expected to cost roughly the same as an '08 TL Type-S (~$38K - $40K-ish).
At the end of the day this thing is *only* slightly better looking than the uglified '09 RL refresh. But that's kind of like saying having a 300 lb. gf is better than having a 350 lb. gf. But why would you want either?
Overall, I like the design of the 3rd gen tl better, its more updated, modern and sporty.
07-13-08, 11:04 AM
#122
Lexus Fanatic
Finally a decent pic of the new TL, been busy taking care of a bunch things over the week and had some problems with my internet so I could only glance at some things on CL. When I first saw the picture it was small and I was a little disappointed because it looked too much like the TSX, then I saw a bigger picture and after looking at it more I think it looks pretty good. It seems to be pretty well liked on most Honda/Acura sites unlike the new TSX which drew alot of criticism but that had more to do with it dropping a few hp and it being a little less driver oriented. The front is a little busy and aggressive but I think it is pretty well done. The rims are really really nice, hope they will be on the production model. It is certainly stands out more and had a more aggressive look and is certainly not boring. The one area I am concerned with is the rear quarter area where it looks like it lost more trunk area for a more fast back look which I am not a fan of and from the spy pics the rear looked kind of odd. It is still too early to really tell because it is only one kind of poorly done picture of it we get to see and I will have to see what it looks like from multiple angles and in the flesh but I think it is going to turn out to be a good looking car and sell very well. I can't wait to see the interior.
07-13-08, 11:25 AM
#123
Lexus Fanatic
I agree, the 3 gen tl looks less luxurious than the 2 gen, and the quality of some of the materials also went down. (leather, trim, wood steering wheel, exterior trim pieces not painted etc)
Overall, I like the design of the 3rd gen tl better, its more updated, modern and sporty.
Overall, I like the design of the 3rd gen tl better, its more updated, modern and sporty.
When I first saw pictures of the 3rd gen I was a little disappointed, it lost much of its elegant upscale look for a sportier more aggressive look but when I saw one in person I thought it was very nice looking and I had never really seen a sedan that looked like it. The interior is very nice and the added features were a plus as well as the 270hp standard. From some angles I still don't think it looks as nice as the 2nd gen TL. Then with the update of the 3rd gen where they added some little slivers of chrome on the lower grill and the foglights in the lower grill as well as some other minor changes have really made the car look really sharp. I saw a brand new black one last night at church and it looked really nice, the subtle update changes were a big plus.
I think the new 09 TL is going to look very good when you see it in person and when you see some better photographs and the updates will be well worth it especially SHAWD with 310hp and 280hp standard in the base model. I can't wait to see the interior.
07-13-08, 03:26 PM
#124
Guest
Posts: n/a
The 2nd gen TL is built like a paperclip. Has anyone sat or driven one recently? I have and they feel brittle. As for styling the 2gen was as bland as a Camry with some giant Corollish headlights added mid year in its cycle.
The reason I got to drive a TL loaner recently is b/c my bud is on his 4th or so tranny in his CL-S. Every bud I had that owned a TL or CL went through at least one tranny if not more.
The 3rd gen TL is built better than teh 2nd gen but the FIRST GEN trumps them both. Its easy to see that car is built in Japan and the newer TLs are built in Ohio. A first gen TL still has a fresh interior has still has a very solid feel, even with frameless windows.
The reason I got to drive a TL loaner recently is b/c my bud is on his 4th or so tranny in his CL-S. Every bud I had that owned a TL or CL went through at least one tranny if not more.
The 3rd gen TL is built better than teh 2nd gen but the FIRST GEN trumps them both. Its easy to see that car is built in Japan and the newer TLs are built in Ohio. A first gen TL still has a fresh interior has still has a very solid feel, even with frameless windows.
07-13-08, 03:50 PM
#126
Guest
Posts: n/a
07-13-08, 04:02 PM
#128
Lexus Fanatic
The 2nd gen TL is built like a paperclip. Has anyone sat or driven one recently? I have and they feel brittle. As for styling the 2gen was as bland as a Camry with some giant Corollish headlights added mid year in its cycle.
The reason I got to drive a TL loaner recently is b/c my bud is on his 4th or so tranny in his CL-S. Every bud I had that owned a TL or CL went through at least one tranny if not more.
The 3rd gen TL is built better than teh 2nd gen but the FIRST GEN trumps them both. Its easy to see that car is built in Japan and the newer TLs are built in Ohio. A first gen TL still has a fresh interior has still has a very solid feel, even with frameless windows.
The reason I got to drive a TL loaner recently is b/c my bud is on his 4th or so tranny in his CL-S. Every bud I had that owned a TL or CL went through at least one tranny if not more.
The 3rd gen TL is built better than teh 2nd gen but the FIRST GEN trumps them both. Its easy to see that car is built in Japan and the newer TLs are built in Ohio. A first gen TL still has a fresh interior has still has a very solid feel, even with frameless windows.
I did not have enough seat time and experience to say a 3rd Gen TL is built better compared to the 2nd but from sitting in it and driving it a few times, it seems very well built too and has more features and higher performance. I don't know anybody who has went through any transmissions or had any problems with their CLs and TLs and I have spoken to alot of people with those cars, but I know they extended the warranty to 100K miles and have read on the internet it has happened on 00-03 Acuras and Hondas just like blown v6 engines from sludge buildup on older Lexus ES and other Toyota v6, ball joint and starter failures on 2nd Gen GS, transmission problems and engine issues with the newer ES and Camry, all the problems with the current GS and it being taken off the recommended list in Consumer reports, some old Hondas rusting prematurely, BMW inline sixes blowing and BMW cooling/electronic issues, Jag electronic issues, etc.
07-13-08, 04:12 PM
#129
Guest
Posts: n/a
2nd Gen TL is definitely not built like a paperclip. I just drove a 99 TL last night with almost 100k miles, it certainly does not feel brittle, where you get those things are beyond me but then again actually I pretty much know what to expect. My parents have had the 99 TL since 98 and it is a very solid reliable car, extremely well built, and drives great, same with the 03 CL which has never had any problems or issues, they have been much more trouble free then my GS. All the 2nd Gen TLs and CLs I have been in were very solid, sure you may hear some squeeks and rattles in some but all older cars have them, my GS certainly does and most Lexus I have been in certainly do. Maybe you could go into detail exactly what makes them feel like "paperclips" and "brittle" and what pieces were falling apart or interior bits felt low quality in all these 2nd Gen TLs and CLs you have had experience with. 2nd Gen TLs are smaller and lighter then a 2nd Gen GS but that does not mean they are brittle.
I did not have enough seat time and experience to say a 3rd Gen TL is built better compared to the 2nd but from sitting in it and driving it a few times, it seems very well built too and has more features and higher performance. I don't know anybody who has went through any transmissions or had any problems with their CLs and TLs and I have spoken to alot of people with those cars, but I know they extended the warranty to 100K miles and have read on the internet it has happened on 00-03 Acuras and Hondas just like blown v6 engines from sludge buildup on older Lexus ES and other Toyota v6, ball joint and starter failures on 2nd Gen GS, transmission problems and engine issues with the newer ES and Camry, all the problems with the current GS and it being taken off the recommended list in Consumer reports, some old Hondas rusting prematurely, BMW inline sixes blowing and BMW cooling/electronic issues, Jag electronic issues, etc.
I did not have enough seat time and experience to say a 3rd Gen TL is built better compared to the 2nd but from sitting in it and driving it a few times, it seems very well built too and has more features and higher performance. I don't know anybody who has went through any transmissions or had any problems with their CLs and TLs and I have spoken to alot of people with those cars, but I know they extended the warranty to 100K miles and have read on the internet it has happened on 00-03 Acuras and Hondas just like blown v6 engines from sludge buildup on older Lexus ES and other Toyota v6, ball joint and starter failures on 2nd Gen GS, transmission problems and engine issues with the newer ES and Camry, all the problems with the current GS and it being taken off the recommended list in Consumer reports, some old Hondas rusting prematurely, BMW inline sixes blowing and BMW cooling/electronic issues, Jag electronic issues, etc.
Details-
-cheap leather from K-mart
-cheap fake wood bits/trim you can pull apart with your fingernails
-the CD player doesn't even show any settings. It just plays
-A/C vents pop out
-HID lights have no adjustment, were getting stolen left and right b/c Cheap Acura built them with only one screw to hold them in place
-foglights that are barely visible on the CL
-doors that are as thin as paper
-Trannies that are as reliable as finding WMD in Iraq
-Rattles galore
-fit and finish of a 20 year old Hyundai
We are not talking about Lexus here but I have never said Lexus builds perfect cars, I have never had a perfect Lexus. HAve you looked at any reliablity/quality data the past 5+ years? Acura is barely above average and just got rated BELOW average.
All 2nd gen TL/CL were built solid"? really? I can find at least 30 owners of that car on this site alone who will say the complete opposite.
Where is Henry? He can chime in, hell I met him on the Acura forums
FYI, the 2nd gen TL was lighter than the GS but was LONGER than the GS.
I have extensive seat time in these vehicles new and used from the TL to TL-S to CL-CL-S-6 manual. It is clear they were built to meet a certain cost to penetrate the market, which it did, the TL sold in droves in the 2nd gen. A loaded TL-S was going for the price of a base TL 3.2!!!
Build quality is not a strong suite and it got better the next generation and I am sure it will get better this generation.
The 2nd gen TL/CL is a car I can and will never recommend. THe 3rd GEn I recommend with 2 thumbs up. This new 4th gen makes me want to pluck my eyes out and burn down the Acura design studio.
Did you even read what MEOWCAT said?
Last edited by LexFather; 07-13-08 at 04:21 PM.
07-13-08, 05:08 PM
#130
Lexus Fanatic
07-13-08, 05:11 PM
#131
Lexus Fanatic
So, guys..........this seems to be quite a popular thread. Do I take it that all of this talk about the new 2009 TL, both pro and con, means you want a review?
I just did the 2008 Type-S 6MT, but the 2009, of course, will be an all-new design. I'll put it on my review list if you want it.
I just did the 2008 Type-S 6MT, but the 2009, of course, will be an all-new design. I'll put it on my review list if you want it.
07-13-08, 05:13 PM
#132
So, guys..........this seems to be quite a popular thread. Do I take it that all of this talk about the new 2009 TL, both pro and con, means you want a review?
I just did the 2008 Type-S 6MT, but the 2009, of course, will be an all-new design. I'll put it on my review list if you want it.
I just did the 2008 Type-S 6MT, but the 2009, of course, will be an all-new design. I'll put it on my review list if you want it.
Of course. Your reviews are always welcome. I personally feel that any car that gets a lot of attention pro and con is worth checking out. If it stirs up that amount of emotion there has to be something to it. Notice how crappy cars are hardly mentioned in any conversation.
07-13-08, 05:56 PM
#135
Lexus Fanatic
OK....review it is. Since the new Type S will not be out for probably another year, I'll plan on the regular TL automatic.....the version most suited for typical all-around driving.