TRDFantasy

So you're saying the build quality on your IS is much better than it was on your 3G TL? It's interesting because I've rarely seen this said by current or former TL owners.

leedogg

jjaber over on azine did a pretty cool photochop

UDel

It is so funny reading the extreme bias and over exaggeration in this post it is hard to take anything serious when it comes to you and Acuras "fit and finish like a 20 year old Hyundia", "like it is built from Styrofoam", you gotta be kidding. You are certainly wrong and it is certainly not fact about it being "built like a paperclip" whatever that means. Maybe you should reread all the reviews on the 2nd Gen TL, I am sure you have access to old magazines on it. You will find if you read reviews you are really the only one who thinks it is such a shoddy poorly built car with cheap quality inside, that is something reviewers would be first to point out. It got very good reviews and its strong point was the quality of its interior and I read all the reviews on the car and its competition I could find. It was not the best selling luxury car for a couple years because it was such a poorly built low quality crapbox and they were not cheap either. If you have had loads of seat time in these cars then there is no way you could come off feeling the 2nd gen TL and CL is some poorly built cheap crapbox unless you are heavily biased against the car or brand. I have had loads of seat time too because my family owns a 2nd gen TL and CL and it is certainly not poorly built nor getting worse the more miles on it. Maybe you were in some cars that were poorly taken care of and heavily abused because all the ones I have been in were very solid cars. I have been in several Lexus models in my opinion that were not built as solidly or use as high quality of materials as a 2nd Gen TL like the ES300, IS300, original GS300 and to some extent 2nd Gen GS300/400 in certain areas. Are you basing your opinion soley on your friends CL that has transmission problems or that you really do drive many Acuras all the time?

I don't own an Acura nor do I work for them, I am not a Acura fanboy and have no reason to blindly like them nor do I have a deep hate for Acura, Lexus or any brand, I just see them for what they are. I don't think Acuras or the TL are perfect and I criticize things as I see it but give me a break with how poorly its builit talk like it is some kind of 80's buick or pontiac. We sat and test drove several cars in the late 90's while I was into Supras, 300zxtt, RX-7, M3s, 911s, 8 series, SC coupes, and not really into Acuras unless it was a NSX or Legend and after sitting in the 2nd gen TL and a ES300, 3 series, C class, Millenia, I30, and a few others my dad and I easily came to the conclusion the TL was the nicest although not as sporty or driver oriented as the much smaller 3 series, one of the areas we focused the most on was the interior and quality and features and we had no real special interest in Acura.

I will address some of your details.

-cheap leather from Kmart-wrong, the leather is not cheap and is very nice, much nicer and softer and suppler then the leather in my GS, how do you feel about the GS leather if you think the 2nd gen TLs is bad. There are several threads on CL complaining about the 2nd GS leather and how rough and waxy and unappealing it is and trying to soften it up with different products.

-cheap fake wood and trim you can pull apart with your fingertips. Yes the wood is simulated but it is solid and looks good to me. Have you seen the "real" wood trim on the IS. It is a piece of plastic with a 1-2mm sliver of real wood glued on to it that is extremely easy to permanantly scratch and Lexus charges a fortune to replace it, I think it was $1900 I saw quoted for the peice around the shifter when someone complained it was scratched, not real nice or high quality if you ask me. The real wood on my GS has turned into a ugly fake looking orange color on the area surrounding the shifter and looks worse then most fake wood and is easy to scratch, I have had people who sat in my car think it is fake and I don't blame them. I admit Acura should use real wood in all its cars just to shut critics up but wood does have its drawbacks like scratching easier then simulated wood and being very expensive to replace. Never had a issue with trim being able to tear out with fingertips so I don't really get what you are saying.

-The CD player not showing settings and just plays- Are you serious? I don't really understand the big deal here and how it relates to poor quality and it sounds like you are stretching a bit but the Acura CD players play fine and we have no trouble playing anything or knowing what track is being played, at least they work right, my display readout on my GS stereo goes in and out and goes crazy throwing up all kinds of weird symbols and shapes, you can't even tell what station you are on or what track you are playing or what function it is on because it often goes biserk with the readout.

-AC vents pop out-again never had any experience with this, they work pretty much like all AC vents work.

-HID lights not having adjustment and getting stolen- The HIDs work fine and have never needed adjusting, never needed to adjust the HIDs in my GS either, the 2nd Gen TL came with HIDs standard where most cars, even many Lexus at the time came with standard bulbs and HIDs were optional so I think Acura wins on that. They may be getting stolen more because all 2nd TLs had HIDs back then when HIDs were not nearly as common and they were highly sought after especially the HIDs in the TSX, there are plenty of threads in CL were people are swapping out Lexus lights for Acura HIDs. Has nothing to do with the quality of the car because they work fine and are not known for having problems or falling apart so I don't get where that has any relevance.

-foglights barely visible on CL- never noticed it and has absolutely nothing to do with quality. I have never heard people complaining about foglights on TLs and CLs, don't know why you would even bring that up as having to do with poor quality. Many high end cars don't have great lighting, does not mean they are poor quality.

-doors as thin as paper- Completely untrue. The doors give a solid high quality thunk when I close them, never heard of that either as a big complaint, never felt they sounded thin or cheap or read in any reviews about that.

-Trannies- Yes there was a small percentage of 5 speed TLs and CLs and Hondas that had problems with trannies and Acura extended the warranty to 100K miles. We have not had any kind of problems nor have I met or talked to anyone with problems with 2nd gen trannies but I have read about some on the internet. Acura did not ignore it and extended the warranty and fixed them for free. At least Acura did something about it instead of ignoring it like Lexus has done with expensive to fix door lock actuators failures, starters, lower ball joint failures, rough/low idle, etc on the 2nd gen GS. I find it odd that your friends CL tranny went 4 times yet most never have any problems at all, sounds more like really bad mechanics installing or working on them or something else. Seems many that l read that went were Type S that were either modified or driven very hard. The transmission issue was completely fixed with the 3rd gen in 2004. Again having some with transmission issues is not poor quality but a design defect with those transmissions affected.

-Rattles galore- Never noticed any serious rattle problem and certainly no more then any BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus I have been in. There was only one squeek in the TL that I thought was coming from the passenger seat but later found it was from the seatbelt latch, I little grease on the bolt is all it took to get rid of it and it was no big deal. My GS has a squeek/rattle from the shifter area, windshield, and sunroof not to mention a bad rattle/thumping/squeeking noise in the front suspension area during colder winter months that is unable to be diagnosed, it pretty much disappears in warmer weather. All cars no matter how old or expensive squeek and rattle.

-Fit and Finish of a 20 year old Hyundai- so biased, ridiculous, and wrong I won't even comment further.

Aside from broad statements and exaggerations you have not named or list really anything or given any evidence that the 2nd Gen TL/CL is poor quality or "built like a paperclip"

You may know plenty of people who were not impressed on CL and I know plenty who are impressed with the 2nd Gen TL, it is not going to prove really anything listing and naming names, I respect meowcats opinion on the 3rd Gen as he owned one although I have also read about many others who are very impressed with the car and meowcat seemed to like the car alot while he had it a few months ago. We are just not going to agree when it comes to how we feel about Acura and to a lesser extent Infiniti. At least you did try to name more specific things about the CL/TL that you did not like even though I completely disagree with most. It is much better then us making broad statements or bashing and not getting into specifics.

You say you really dislike the new 09 TL design so much but what exactly is it that you dislike about it, I said I generally like it but I did not like the rear area and fastback like slope from that picture but it looks similar to the 3GS fastback like slope which I am not a fan of either which you seem to like much more. At least name some specific design elements you don't like about the new TL and what you think should be changed instead of saying you want to pluck your eyes out burn down the Acura design studio, it is not that offensive.

UDel

Good find leedogg, that is a very nice photochop and looks nicer especially the headlights and grill area.

LexBob2

Consumer Reports says the current gen TL, "is among the highest scoring sedans we've tested".

Their used car reliability ratings are very high too.

Whether or not one agrees with CR, the TL can't be THAT bad or so many wouldn't have been sold year after year.

Threxx

You've been missing in mmarshall's Acura TL-S 6MT review, which is odd since you were probably the primary person requesting the review specifically with a TL-S 6MT.

passnu2

iTrader: (33)

The TL is not a bad car. the trans was for sure an issue...I went through 12 in total between the TL, TLS, & the TL aspec....this issue was never resolved when I last leased in 05.

as far as fit and finish they did a great job back from 99 on this car! I have the same stupid rattles in my IS350 that I did in the TL. Acura blows Lexus away with their NAVI. The sound system that is standard in the TL is comparable to my ML in my IS. Its funny to read all the bashing here of the TL especially from the ones that have the new IS. They are the same car all day long. The one and ONLY plus to my IS is its RWD vs FWD of the Acura. Now that they will go to the SH-AWD this wont be an issue in the new model year. I would consider the new model for my daily driver for work purposes.

Threxx

It's just odd that you haven't replied to it when you were the primary requester. He went out of his way by your request to find a 6MT equipped model which was not all that easy to come by, it sounded like.

Huh? I haven't owned a TL nor have I driven one as a rental... not sure where you got either of those conflicting ideas. Most of my seat time is in my best friend's 05 that I literally drive or drive in every other work day (we work together and alternate turns driving to lunch, often times swapping keys) and many weekends. It's sitting outside my building right now and we'll probably drive to lunch in it in about 2 hours.

That was if we couldn't coexist peacefully in a thread... obviously if this is the kind of response I'm going to get with me simply saying you might have missed the car review you asked for and you completely flying off the handle at me about my attitude (of which I had none) and making up stories about me not having driven a TL in years then I guess we shouldn't reply to each other. Sheesh.

Threxx

That was an 07 TL-S that my friend was given (twice) as a loaner when his 05 TL was in the shop.

MaSndM

i like it. it does look like a mix b/t the 3GS and the last gen maxima, but it doesn't look as bad as everyone says. i actually don't even mind the grill. i think i understand acura's philosophy behind it. i think the 4gen is a good progression. i'm sure it will still sell well. i think acura was in a hard place b/c the 3gen looked so good, but i think overall they did a good job.

LexFather

I refuse to read such a long post that reminds me of the report that the Earth is flat. ITs not, the 2gen CL/TL is built like crap, deal with it. You are talking a\ about magazines, I am talking about the EXTENSIVE seat time I've had in each of them, clearly you missed that part. Maybe just be done with us all and get that banging new Pilot or Ridgeline.

Rodneyc77

Photoshop I found on AZine... Has potential I think...

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Looks good, but from that angle it sort of has the 3rd gen GS shape. Then again, any cars shaped like a bubble nowadays look the same

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Actually that photoshop looks pretty good. It really is that new Acura grill that makes the new Acuras look ugly up front. A lot of my friends end up putting Honda grills, or Mugen grills on their cars so it changes the front end a lot. Makes it look much nicer. The Honda and Euro grills always look better than the USDM Acura grills.

LexFather

Why don't we just PS it as an entirely different car. It kills me people have to photoshop all these new UGLY cars right out the bag to JUSTIFY they can/do look good. And that PS looks like the OLD Maxima with yellow fogs and a bird beak.

Let me remind everyone, this is Acura's best pic of the car. They felt this was the pic that made it look the best. Think about that.

That means, a base TL with the smaller wheels and more wheel gap will look like a giant Wall-E turd and fit appropriately with the rest of Wall-E's unflushed remains on the dealership lot.