turbocharging the 335 was probably the bigger mistake with regards to the M3

 

that's what i have been saying as well. bmw's decision to do turbo 335 and na v8 m3, that's a mistake

 

I don't quite see it as a mistake, especially from a buyer's point of view. The 335i gives you much of what the M does at a far lower price. Of course it is not the absolute equal of the M in 0-60, skidpad, or slalom figures, but when you look at what the 335i DOES gives you for 45-50K, and then contrast it with the 70K and up (even more with the inevitable dealer markups) you're going to spend on a new M3.........I think the handwriting is on the wall.

 

read it the other way, marshall. bmw now able to create the m3 to be a more distant car from the 335i, that's a mistake. and that's also why you say the m3 is not worth it and that the 335 is a good car for the value.

not to mention the potential of the 335 setup where a chip can easily push the car to outrun the m3 in straight line

assume today the 335 is just a na 6 cylinder pushing 300hp, it might be a different story

things are relative

 

OK..........I think we're just looking at the same issue two different ways. I was just looking at it from the customer's point of view, not the factory's. I thought that the 335i, at 45-50K with options, was a better dollar-for-dollar value than the M3 (if you can call 45-50K cheap...that still is a lot of money). And, granted, part of my point of view is based on the old M3.....I have not driven the new one yet, with its V8.

As you say, a chip could turn the 335 into an M3 at the drag strip, but it would likely void the warranty. And, believe me, the twin-turbo 3.0, even with the stock chip, is no slouch...I didn't have a stopwatch with me, but by the seat of my pants, it felt as fast, if not faster, than the larger and more expensive V8 550i, which I have also driven.

Perhaps I should wait until I actually drive a new M3 for further comment, but the thread topic itself was opened on the assumption that the new M was overpriced, and, right off the bat, I would have to tentatively agree.

 

mmarshall

I don't want to argue with you, as you are usually right on the money. However this point about the M3 costing $20K to $25K more than the 335i is not correct. As I pointed out on the linked thread. This guy is comparing a un-loaded 335i (ie. $41K) to a loaded M3 $70K

The fact is the 335i (base) $41K has the same features as the M3 base $56K (except the M3 has a lesser stereo base than the 335i) so even if you factor that in the cost is not more than $16K

You do NOT pay a mark-up for a M3. At least where I shop they just say MSRP and not a penny more.

NOW every option on the 335i would also be an option on the M3 except there are some options that you can't get for the 335i like active dampers, premium 16-speaker stereo, full leather, carbon-fibre trim etc.. in other words if you count the M3 as being more than $16K higher than the 335i you have to count the extra content (or cross it off).

My point is the 335i is pricey with all the options as well, I believe in the $50s.

So just to be fair, I think you should not talk about mark-ups since I have not heard more than one or two stories and that was in LA or somewhere. The point is if you pay a mark-up for a M3 you're a fool. So just talk about the actual $16K price difference.

For that you get on the M3:

CF roof
larger and better wheels, tires, brakes
larger and better engine
stronger tranny
better sound system (option can't get on the 335i and it's said to be comp to a ML option on Lexus)
option of Dual-clutch tranny
Better interior (standard)
Almost all new exterior
All new suspension

--

thats all I can think of but that's about 10 things you are getting over and above a 335i. Maybe it's not worth it, but I'll say it's not nothing. It's very real differences and almost every aspect has been looked at and improved over the 335i

--

I drove both the 335i and the M3 and just placed an order for a M3 90 days no mark-up. It's built to my specifications, if I wanted to get no options in the mid-$50s I could.

I will tell you the stock M3 engine is much stronger than the 335i. I am not talking about Dinan mod 335i, I am just talking stock engine. The M3 is close to a stock Corvette in acceleration.

Not everyone wants to mod. If you love to mod the 335 is a great starting point but you will spend some money which will close the $16K gap. So in the end if you spend $8K to mod a 335i it's just $8K less money than a M3 with the same options.

 

We're not arguing. We're discussing this calmly and respectfully.


It's too early to tell with the new M3, but previous ones did bring mark-ups in NoVA where I live. Yes, some people are fools.


I've driven a stock Corvette C6, but not to max performance on a track. In regular street driving, the C6 felt a little faster than a stock 335i...not much.
Of course, I can't compare it directly to the new M3 as I have not driven it.
And, like I answered Henry (rominl) above, I would refrain from further comparisons to the new M3 until I have actually driven it.

Yes, Maybe. That, of course, is the whole thread topic and these discussions.....whether it is or not. Opinions, so far, seemed to have differed among a number of posters..

 

I think the new M3 is freakin sexy. We have 3 or 4 on the lot right now. Couple coupes and a sedan or 2. I like the way the sedan looks a lot better than the coupe, not sure why, but I just do.
As far as performance goes, yes, the stock M3 takes the 335 everywhere.
The Dinan chip the guy is talking about on those other forums actually does not void the warranty, and it comes with its own warranty. Dinan is pretty good about this, they know their stuff for sure.
I dont know what Dinan will do with the new M3, but it will definitely need some more torque. 285 ft/lbs is nothin from a V8..even a small V8, but where theres high revving I guess you have to sacrifice a little torque..take the S2K for example. 9000 redline, 240 hp, and like 160 torque I think.
I will tell yall this, the sound of the M3 compared to the IS-F is nothing, even at higher RPMs it doesnt sound all that amazing, but the IS-F sounds SOOO good.

 

much of this engine is above the normal RPMs of a normal car. it's 6K to 8400 RPMs which means drive it like you stole it. I guess in normal driving it's not any different than a lot of car out there, I mean it's quick enough but nothing crazy.

One point about mark-ups. I think BMW is doing a great job to make as many cars as they can sell. I mean, they know it's a profit center. If they can sell IDK the number but lest say they can sell 8K units per year in the US. That's better for them than to have people on a waiting list for a year or more and maybe those people will just buy a 335i or another brand. So I think they are actually trying to keep up with demand. They said the plan is for this to be the highest volume M3 ever.

About the GTR, I was calling around and every dealer wants $20K over msrp. At first I was thinking the GTR was a good car to consider but I don't want to pay $92K and I don't want to wait 2-3 years for my number to come up. BMW (from what I can tell) is not far behind, a couple of dealers told me 60 to 90 days for a new order. I don't know if that's a bad thing, maybe it means the price is too high.

But I do like having something slightly more special than a 335i (which looks plain next to te M3) and some people are spending big money on wheels and such for the 335i that IMO if you are spending heavily on a modification for me it's better to get the factory modified car.

 

I think the point that mmarshall was getting at was the fact that it doesn't matter what hardware the M3 has over the 335. I'm quite certain He's well aware of what you get for the price difference. He feels the 335 performs so well that the near 20k price difference for the M3 is not worth it.

 

Yes.....GT-R markups are pretty much a given. We talked about that back in the GT-R threads. You've got to want one pretty bad to cough up 92K for one.



By all means....it's your money; spend it as you see fit. I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise. The M3, of course, does have a slightly sportier appearance overall than a 335...but the 335 I drove had the Sport Package with ultra-low profile 35-series tires that looked like they could have come right off an M3.