Im sorry, I guess I'm too stuck on the idea that a Corolla based Lexus would cheapen the brand. When you are second or third tier a la Acura, you can have a FWD 4 cylinder because no one really expects that much more from you and you have trouble shaking that image after a while - so at some point you just live with it I guess. If Lexus were in that boat, I too, would understand a need for such a car, but why mess with a formula that put you there you are? IMO Lexus needs nothing less than the ES in its line-up - that is for Toyota to play with. There doesn't need to be a Lexus equivalent for every Toyota car in my mind.

 

I have to wonder if the general public (read: people not on these types of boards) really care or even know what platform & what not a car is based on? Seeing as how the Camry-based FWD EX350 & RX350 are Lexus's biggest sellers by far, I would think not ... not to mention how well the TL sells.

I think that the average buyers probably care more about the tangible luxury items: like the badge on the hood, HIDs, looks, leather etc etc. In other words, I would think that Toyota could make a Corolla/Rav4 based vehicle & it would still sell well as long as has all the required things to make it appealing to the luxury market (including a high price tag) - there probably is a market for entry level luxury vehicles like this. The only people that would say something against it would be enthusiasts.

I would also like to mention that I have heard suggested that Lexus should stop selling the ES350 & IS250/350 bc it cheapens the brand. I have actually heard them described as the car for people who want a Lexus but cannot really afford one (I know I know ... not entirely true) Guess it all depends on your perspective ....

 

I disagree. Acura has done "well" is relative. They've done well if you look it the point of view of a Honda buyer wanting something a bit nicer and getting an Acura. Even Acura admits that is a big problem, with the TL being cross-shoped heavily with the Accord according to Acura themselves.

Infiniti years ago barely had any recognition. Ever since Ghosn came on and the lineup was revitalized, Infiniti does not have and likely will not have any 4 cyl engines, unless perhaps a diesel.

Acura right now is in the same position as Infiniti was years ago. In terms of brand recognition, they are near the bottom among luxury nameplates.

Lexus isn't being unwise at all. What WOULD be unwise is to sell a Corolla-based Lexus. That would dilute the Lexus brand and Lexus buyers would certainly notice.

The Corolla platform was designed for entry-level vehicles. It was not designed with luxury buyers in mind. No matter what suspension you put on it, or what changes you make to the platform, fundamentally it was a platform designed for the mass market and to be profitable at the mass-market level.

The Camry platform on the other hand was designed for mid-market vehicles. The Camry platform was simply designed for a higher class of vehicles than the Corolla platform. That is why with some suspension changes and other minor changes the Camry platform works for the RX and ES.

Yes most consumers likely won't know what platform their car has, but consumers WILL be able to *feel* the difference if the vehicle is on a Corolla platform compared to being on a Camry platform.

 

Nah, I don't ever want to see 4-cylinder engines on a Lexus, at least for N.America, leave the 4-cylinders for the Toyota brand.

 

That, though, is the whole purpose for this thread......the discussion of a new, entry-level Lexus. If you guys feel a Corolla-based version is out (which I don't), then let's hear some other suggestions.

 

I think the ES/IS as entry level is fine as it is, don't want to go futther down market for the Lexyus brand, & I still think the ES350 rides soft enough as it is - if you want softer ride than that, change to wheels with higher profile tires, or maybe they can offer that as an option.

 

I really dont see a need on the entry level front and they have addressed the sports car issue now (LF-A), but maybe something a little more affordable? When and IS based coupe comes out I think they will have pretty well filled their "holes."

 

I don't think Lexus needs any new models right now, besides of course the long anticipated LF-A super car. And defenately no models below the ES.

Lexus should just keep doing what they are doing, and keep improving their lineup. Offer hybrid and F options across entire line up, move the ES to RWD platform, make GS sportier, make IS (and perhaps ES) coupe and convertible. Offer AWD on all models. Move GX470 to a crossover platform.

And highly unlikely for this to happen, but I wish Lexus would abandon this whole L-finesse styling cheme, and once again make distinctive models like they used to.

 

Does lexus really need another entry level model? It seems like the ones they already have are doing well vs. some others being mentioned.

Some 2007 sales results:
82,857 ES350
54,933 IS 250/350
37,894 A4
6,353 A3
33,037 TSX

 

Guys, Lexus has been adamant about not selling 4 cylinder cars. Hell that is part of the reason a diesel took so long in America.
The fact is before Lexus, people thought 4 cylinder 138hp 318s were cool. BMW/Benz were selling 4 cylinders in America while Lexus never offered one.

Well look today, BMW/Benz no longer offer 4 cylinders here. Hmmmm..

Lexus research in the 1980s and in the late 1990s (for the IS) showed 4-cylinder=economy in peoples eyes. Period. I don't care how you tart it up and badge it, that is what it is in America. Especially when he had 99 cents a gallon gas.

The strategy is correct. I hate to bring up Acura but they are falling off the luxury map as they continue to build 4 cylinders and tarted up Accords. That may sell some cars, that is not luxury. Lexus is mentioned worldwide, they built their success building products people want at a comparable price. They did not sell lesser products at a lesser price.

Could it be possible this changes with gas being $3.50 a gallon? Possible. America to date has shown though, we still would rather skip a small engine/car.

Sal saying move the ES up to the GS might make sense if the rumored ES/RX new platform comes (no longer shared with the CAmry).

The IS has now AWD/sedan and a coupe/convert is coming. The IS-F is now here. Its slowly becoming a full lineup like the 3 series.

Still, i think Lexus has done a good job making the ES start at 32k and go to 45k loaded (GS territory).

The amazing thing is people make jokes/fun of the ES (oh its just a Camry) but it costs MORE than ever and sells BETTER than ever.

The RX sells over 100,000 a year, every year. Car makers would love to have that.

 

When people say negative things about Lexus, the first thing that comes up is always FWD ES. IT will get bashed even more after RWD hyundai Genesis comes out.
Sometimes I really dont understand Why Lexus doesn't offer more variants of ES. We got all different kinds of IS, RX, GS, LS now.........and just one ES350, which is the best seller. Shouldn't the best seller be offered with more variants? BMW 3 series has tons different cars. Audi has A4 variants too.

I think what we need is more ES with AWD, convertible and hybrid, which Camry already has those(AWD from RX). this way, ES can keep FWD, and still be truly called luxury car. It is time Lexus comes out with those ES and put an end to all ES bashing that oh it's just glorified Camry.

Regarding of new entry-level, i think Lexus will come up with new CUV(which will be introduced next year autoshow) that competes with X3, RDX, EX. Lexus said that this class wouldn't succeed well in U.S but times have changed now that there is RDX, EX from other Japanese manufactures, and we all know from history of Toyota,Honda,Nissan always competing against each other that Lexus cant help but join the CUV club.
However, It will be hybrid-dedicated CUV I bet. Then It will truly stand out among others and It will grab as much attention in luxury market as Prius in general market.

What i am not sure is whether this hybrid will be offered with 4 cylinder or V6. I agree with most people that Lexus SHOULD NOT offer 4 cylinder at least in U.S, but V4 hybrid would be different story, wouldn't it? V4 hybrid for small CUV might be acceptable in U.S if it(equipped with new lithium battery)can provide great MPG regarding it is HYBRID-DEDICATED model; peolple will put most of their attentions to MPG first (luxury,design 2nd , perfomance 3rd) in this car. Will v4 hybrid-dedicated CUV cheapen lexus image or stand out again as the leader in this class? I dont know

 

I'd rather see Lexus bring back IS wagon than make a silly cute ute.

 

To take an old 1SICKLEX saying. It sells because it is a Lexus. Just like how its sells because it is a Honda The ES is a good car, but nothing great IMHO. In that segment there are a lot of good and better competition out there. The ES sells well because it is a Lexus. Just like how people want to show they have a Mercedes and buy a C Class, people want to show they have a Lexus and buy an ES. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone, but just listen to how many members say things like..Well, I'm still driving a Lexus while thats just a Hyundai Or something like that. I'm saying this from a guy that owned an ES300 and currently in my family we have 3 of them.

 

Being that the ES is supposably getting it's own platform, a new entry-level can come in using the Camry platform. Again, this is all speculation and if the LS remains soft-sprung, there will be no issue. However, if the LS does continue to get more sporty, the ES would be the perfect candidate to take it's place as the "soft, luxury" car the LS once was.

FWD, v6 and maybe a small v8, soft sprung, as quiet as can be, roomy (larger than current form) and some luxury amenities. FWD is fine because this isn't an enthusiast car. It's also cheaper to build and nobody who owns/buys it will give an *** about which wheels are powering the car. The v6 would be adequate - but maybe a small v8 for power without any harshness or vibration. The softest suspension of all Lexus vehicles - because ES drivers don't care about carving corners. And it doesn't seen every option the LS has (massaging seats, oscillating vents, etc, etc, etc). Just the important stuff.

The LS460 isn't the first iteration of the LS becoming sporty.. The 98/99 LS400 was also a bit stiffer than years before and after... So Lexus does have this on their mind...

 

I doubt very much if the LS will get anymore sportier than it is now, unless of course they launch LS-F, but thats a different story.