When Toyota had balls.......
Pole Position
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
From: Carson, California currently in Makati City, PI
That's part of the point, though. Why does a giant like Toyota have to partner with Subaru on a sporty car? Why didn't they develop it all themselves? They have resources out the wazoo.
It shows to me that Toyota was never completely committed to the idea and that they are basically buying into Subaru's plan so they don't have to commit too much of their own resources into it. In other words, it's them taking a shortcut to the product. If it had been anything else, (a new hybrid, minivan, crossover) you would have had Toyota spending all kinds of money in the development process.
Like you said, Toyota is totally capable with sports cars, as shown by their history. It's not the capability which is in question, it's the mindset... the commitment.
It shows to me that Toyota was never completely committed to the idea and that they are basically buying into Subaru's plan so they don't have to commit too much of their own resources into it. In other words, it's them taking a shortcut to the product. If it had been anything else, (a new hybrid, minivan, crossover) you would have had Toyota spending all kinds of money in the development process.
Like you said, Toyota is totally capable with sports cars, as shown by their history. It's not the capability which is in question, it's the mindset... the commitment.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'll comment in any thread
. Yet again you bring up Acura for some reason in a thread not about Acura. Seems odd after reading your previous post how I am more or less saying the same thing you did but you single me out for some reason. You start a thread about Toyota not having ***** now and complain they don't offer anything performance oriented then get mad when I agree and criticize them for no offering anything performance oriented.
I don't even get where you believe I "love" Acura's current lineup or efforts. I have said I don't care for the RDX and think it should be replaced by something else, it only has a nice interior and a decent powerplant which really should go in the TSX. I said I was dissapointed with the 09 TL exterior but to me it is not horrible like many have been saying,looks much better in person and it has a very nice high quality interior and drives very well, I also was disappointed with the new TSX design and powerplant choice but it has grown on me and it does have a nice interior. MDX is a excellent SUV even if I am not a big fan of SUVs, I was also disappointed in the RL freshup exterior wise but liked the interior enhancements, I do love the NSX, Legend Coupe, last 08 TL and 05-08RL and was highly impressed by the 99-03TL that my parents owned. Even though I am not thrilled with Acuras current lineup I still think they are very solid cars with very good quality and are all reviewed very well and I do not believe any are crap or an absolute joke but I may change my mind once that X6 fighter comes out.
I have heavily criticized Acura for this stupid pointless BMW X6 fighter they are coming out with on this site and other sites and will continue to criticize as it is a pointless vehicle and dumb decision. I have also criticized Acuras lack of sports cars or coupes right now but the ASC(NSX replacement is coming and I am looking forward to it. I also criticized their decision to do a front engined NSX replacement but understand why they did it and hold out hope for a true mid engine NSX replacement in the future. Please don't try to say I absolutely love Acuras and find no fault in them, I am usually just arguing back with your constant Acura bashing and anti Honda/Acura threads. Before you say I am in love with Acura take a look at all the anti Acura/Honda threads and remarks you make week after week often in conversations that have nothing to do with Acura/Honda. My "love" for Acura is about a 1 compared to your hate for Acura which is a 10. I don't go calling Toyota buyers/enthusiasts "sheep" like someone on here does about Honda/Acura enthusiasts/buyers.
Getting back on topic I still won't change my position which is pretty much exactly like yours in that I think it is pathetic Toyota is so successful and has all these SUV/Pickup models for every little segment yet does not have a single sports car or even something remotely interesting to enthusiasts while smaller companies all have something performance oriented that appeals to enthusiasts. This latest partnership with Subaru to maybe make a 4 cylinder rwd sports car with power rumored to be in the 180hp-200hp range does not really excite me much at all. Toyota should have more sports/performance cars and offer a true Supra replacement as that car is legendary even if it is not going to sell in big numbers as well as a true hardtop MR2 replacement, and Celica ALLTRAC type replacement. I miss the days too when Toyota had a twin turbo Supra, turbo MR2, Celica ALLTRAC, and Lexus had a fantastic coupe the SC300/400 and took the performance/enthusiasts market seriously instead of putting pretty much all effort into the SUV/Pickup market.
. Yet again you bring up Acura for some reason in a thread not about Acura. Seems odd after reading your previous post how I am more or less saying the same thing you did but you single me out for some reason. You start a thread about Toyota not having ***** now and complain they don't offer anything performance oriented then get mad when I agree and criticize them for no offering anything performance oriented.I don't even get where you believe I "love" Acura's current lineup or efforts. I have said I don't care for the RDX and think it should be replaced by something else, it only has a nice interior and a decent powerplant which really should go in the TSX. I said I was dissapointed with the 09 TL exterior but to me it is not horrible like many have been saying,looks much better in person and it has a very nice high quality interior and drives very well, I also was disappointed with the new TSX design and powerplant choice but it has grown on me and it does have a nice interior. MDX is a excellent SUV even if I am not a big fan of SUVs, I was also disappointed in the RL freshup exterior wise but liked the interior enhancements, I do love the NSX, Legend Coupe, last 08 TL and 05-08RL and was highly impressed by the 99-03TL that my parents owned. Even though I am not thrilled with Acuras current lineup I still think they are very solid cars with very good quality and are all reviewed very well and I do not believe any are crap or an absolute joke but I may change my mind once that X6 fighter comes out.
I have heavily criticized Acura for this stupid pointless BMW X6 fighter they are coming out with on this site and other sites and will continue to criticize as it is a pointless vehicle and dumb decision. I have also criticized Acuras lack of sports cars or coupes right now but the ASC(NSX replacement is coming and I am looking forward to it. I also criticized their decision to do a front engined NSX replacement but understand why they did it and hold out hope for a true mid engine NSX replacement in the future. Please don't try to say I absolutely love Acuras and find no fault in them, I am usually just arguing back with your constant Acura bashing and anti Honda/Acura threads. Before you say I am in love with Acura take a look at all the anti Acura/Honda threads and remarks you make week after week often in conversations that have nothing to do with Acura/Honda. My "love" for Acura is about a 1 compared to your hate for Acura which is a 10. I don't go calling Toyota buyers/enthusiasts "sheep" like someone on here does about Honda/Acura enthusiasts/buyers.
Getting back on topic I still won't change my position which is pretty much exactly like yours in that I think it is pathetic Toyota is so successful and has all these SUV/Pickup models for every little segment yet does not have a single sports car or even something remotely interesting to enthusiasts while smaller companies all have something performance oriented that appeals to enthusiasts. This latest partnership with Subaru to maybe make a 4 cylinder rwd sports car with power rumored to be in the 180hp-200hp range does not really excite me much at all. Toyota should have more sports/performance cars and offer a true Supra replacement as that car is legendary even if it is not going to sell in big numbers as well as a true hardtop MR2 replacement, and Celica ALLTRAC type replacement. I miss the days too when Toyota had a twin turbo Supra, turbo MR2, Celica ALLTRAC, and Lexus had a fantastic coupe the SC300/400 and took the performance/enthusiasts market seriously instead of putting pretty much all effort into the SUV/Pickup market.
I clearly state Toyota is complete blah for a mainstream compnay and Acura is complete blah for a luxury brand company. Toyota has no sports cars, Acura has no coupes and no V-8s and remains mostly FWD. Ironically, Toyota has V-8s and pretty much everything an Acura does.
Don't call out Toyota unless you call out Acura.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 904
Likes: 3
From: Florida
[QUOTE=GSteg;3126297]The supra and MR-2 Turbo were the only two toyotas I have ever been excited about.
Can't tell you how **** I was when toyota decided to replace the MR-2 with this (fill in the blank):
How pretty!
Can't tell you how **** I was when toyota decided to replace the MR-2 with this (fill in the blank):
How pretty!
Last edited by Sal Collaziano; Nov 13, 2008 at 01:12 PM.
i believe some one said this before but if not.... toyota needs to dump their ****ty f1 team, quit wasting the billion + dollars on loosing and develop a proper sports car!!!!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
So I just visited the Toyota site and it needs Viagra I mean 7 cars, 6 SUVs, 1 Van and 2 trucks.
The only 2 door IS A YARIS!!!
With news that the FT-86 will be a SCION what does Toyota really plan? MR2? Supra?
I mean yeah its great if the Camry and Prius get sportier but really, what is the plan?
I started this thread Dec 2007. It is 2010 going on 2011. Mr. Toyoda I hope there is more than a Scion FT-86 coming.
The only 2 door IS A YARIS!!!
With news that the FT-86 will be a SCION
what does Toyota really plan? MR2? Supra? I mean yeah its great if the Camry and Prius get sportier but really, what is the plan?
I started this thread Dec 2007. It is 2010 going on 2011. Mr. Toyoda I hope there is more than a Scion FT-86 coming.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Even the base CT drives sportier than any Toyota but its still a pretty expensive car base at 29k, out of many Toyota buyers reach.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,212
Likes: 261
TMC sells Daihatsu/Scion/Toyota/Lexus vehicles... whats the big deal? If you want cheap sporty, you have tC right now, good car... if you want cheap to mid, you will get FT-86... if you want expensive you get IS-F.
Only supra is missing, and it will probably keep missing as sport coupe market has shrunk.
Only supra is missing, and it will probably keep missing as sport coupe market has shrunk.
Out of Warranty
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,925
Likes: 13
From: Houston, Republic of Texas
Toyota is not alone, with the exception of a handful of "performance" models (halo cars), most manufacturers have opted for building "appliances" that they can sell in volume. Look at the manufacturers that went broke producing high-end performance machines: Jaguar, Ferrari, Aston-Martin, and Lamborghini - most of which were gobbled up by larger companies seeking a halo marque, or have jacked the MSRP of their exotics into the stratosphere enabling them to survive on the sale of a few hundred examples per year. Porsche, Lancia, and Alfa are desperately seeking a sub $50K car they can sell to the masses that won't tarnish their upscale ultra-performance image without creating a sub-brand.
Maybe Ford has it right. The current Mustang coupe with a powerful 3.7L V6, 6-MT, Performance Package with a number of functional go-fast goodies, including springs, strut tower braces, brakes, and decent rubber, goes out the door for just a tick over $25K locally. There is a practical, well equipped car with a nice turn of performance for a reasonable price. The big plus here is that it is within reach of the masses, putting Ford solidly in line for some nice sales numbers. No, it's not a Supra, but it's no Camry either. Toyota, take note.
Maybe Ford has it right. The current Mustang coupe with a powerful 3.7L V6, 6-MT, Performance Package with a number of functional go-fast goodies, including springs, strut tower braces, brakes, and decent rubber, goes out the door for just a tick over $25K locally. There is a practical, well equipped car with a nice turn of performance for a reasonable price. The big plus here is that it is within reach of the masses, putting Ford solidly in line for some nice sales numbers. No, it's not a Supra, but it's no Camry either. Toyota, take note.
Last edited by Lil4X; Dec 31, 2010 at 06:25 AM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,370
Likes: 0
From: NY
So I just visited the Toyota site and it needs Viagra I mean 7 cars, 6 SUVs, 1 Van and 2 trucks.
The only 2 door IS A YARIS!!!
With news that the FT-86 will be a SCION what does Toyota really plan? MR2? Supra?
I mean yeah its great if the Camry and Prius get sportier but really, what is the plan?
I started this thread Dec 2007. It is 2010 going on 2011. Mr. Toyoda I hope there is more than a Scion FT-86 coming.
The only 2 door IS A YARIS!!!
With news that the FT-86 will be a SCION
what does Toyota really plan? MR2? Supra? I mean yeah its great if the Camry and Prius get sportier but really, what is the plan?
I started this thread Dec 2007. It is 2010 going on 2011. Mr. Toyoda I hope there is more than a Scion FT-86 coming.
I think that contrary to speculation and rumors, the FT-86 will indeed be branded Toyota. Would be idiotic to brand it a scion imo, but that's another story. Guess we'll see come November-December.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,695
Likes: 2
From: CA
It would be great for Toyota's image if they bring over the FT-86 as a Toyota, but then again maybe they want clear differentiation Scion youth-sporty / Toyota mainstream appliance / Lexus luxury performance. A bit weird though the naming under Scion however, Scion FT-86 with the tC, xA, xB...
Either way I'm glad the FT-86 is being made, I hope it's not isolated either.
Either way I'm glad the FT-86 is being made, I hope it's not isolated either.