Notices
Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Innova

CR-V Passes the Once-Dominant Explorer

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 05:30 PM
  #1  
Mr. Jones's Avatar
Mr. Jones
Thread Starter
Lexus Test Driver
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,015
Likes: 0
From: tx
Default CR-V Passes the Once-Dominant Explorer

Ford, Honda Cross Paths
On Sales of SUVS
CR-V Passes the Once-Dominant Explorer
July 23, 2007
By JOSEPH B. WHITE



Deb Nison is a data warehouse developer in Portland, Ore., who likes to go snowboarding on nearby Mt. Hood. Once upon a time, she drove a Chevy TrailBlazer, and later a Subaru Forester. Today, she owns a 2007 Honda CR-V.

"I like the way it handles," she says. She appreciates feeling "ridiculously safe" in a vehicle with standard head protecting airbags. And for an SUV, she says, it gets "decent mileage" -- about 23 miles per gallon so far around town.

Ms. Nison is just one reason why the Honda CR-V is, as of June 30, America's best-selling sport-utility vehicle. The CR-V's rise, and the parallel collapse in demand for "real" SUVs like the TrailBlazer and the one-time King of SUVs, the Ford Explorer, reveal a lot about why the American auto industry is in the shape it's in right now.

Just 10 years ago -- a mere two product generations in auto industry terms -- America was SUV Nation. SUV meant a tough looking box perched on a heavy steel ladder frame borrowed from a pickup truck. No vehicle did a better job capturing the appeal of this formula than the Ford Explorer.

In 1997, Ford Motor Co. sold more than 383,000 Explorers. Three years later, Ford sold more than 445,000 Explorers. It's not a coincidence that Ford earned record profits during this period. The Explorer was a perfect automotive money-making machine: A high volume model that sold at premium prices. If Henry Ford or Alfred P. Sloan, the architect of General Motors Corp.'s rise to power, had been alive in 1997, they would have understood the Explorer's business model immediately -- and approved.

Of course, it helped -- a lot -- that the late 1990s were an era of ultra cheap gas. Today's V-6-powered Explorer is rated at 15 miles per gallon in the city, and 20 mpg highway. Not bad for a truck that weighs more than 4,600 pounds, perhaps, but not good in any absolute way. But at $1 or so a gallon during the heady days of the dot-com boom, a lot of American families could afford to take a "What Me Worry?" attitude toward gasoline prices. The Explorer's combination of a tall-in-the-saddle ride, "go anywhere" four-wheel-drive capability and rugged looks became a suburban status symbol.

But even as the Explorer was enjoying its peak years, Honda Motor Co. began offering something new. The Honda CR-V, launched in 1997, looked like an SUV that had taken a wrong turn on to the set of "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids." It had the boxy profile of an SUV, and the rear cargo space, and all wheel drive. But it was more than 1,000 pounds lighter than an Explorer, and smaller in every dimension. Underneath, the CR-V was built like a compact, front-wheel drive Honda Civic. There was no heavy duty ladder frame, which among other things meant it couldn't tow very much.

The industry struggled with what to call vehicles like the CR-V -- cute utes, car-truck hybrids -- before settling on "crossover."

In the late 1990s, the CR-V sold modestly compared to the mighty Explorer. In 1997, Honda sold just shy of 67,000. By 2000, sales had risen to just over 118,000. In other words, barely half of one Explorer assembly plant's annual production.

The Explorer, and the even larger SUVs such as the Hummer H2 that built on its success, were the T-Rexes of the American road. The Honda CR-V was the furtive mammal, scurrying to stay out of harm's way.

Did somebody say, asteroid?


When it comes to the auto industry, dinosaur metaphors are irresistible. The Great SUV Die-off of the last three to four years is the most dramatic example of how vulnerable the auto industry and its long product design cycles are to short-term shocks since the oil embargoes of the 1970s.

From the peak of more than 445,000 Explorers sold in 2000, Explorer sales have fallen by nearly 60% through the end of 2006. By the end of 2007, Ford may be lucky to sell much more than 150,000 Explorers -- the capacity of just one shift of production at one assembly plant. GM's rival mid-size, traditional SUVs are in the same downward spiral. Within a few years, it's probable that neither Ford nor GM will even sell a body-on-frame mid-sized SUV.

There's more to this than just $3 a gallon gasoline. Consider how the CR-V has redefined success. It's the best-selling SUV in America, but through the first half of this year, Honda has sold only about 104,000. By the end of the year, CR-V sales might top 200,000, but probably not by much. In other words, No. 1 in the SUV segment today means selling fewer than half as many vehicles as Ford did when the Explorer was No. 1 a decade ago.

That market fragmentation is one reason why Detroit auto makers, including Ford, are having such trouble. It's harder and harder to sell a full assembly plant's worth of one type of vehicle just in the U.S. Honda's strategy for realizing economies of scale with the CR-V doesn't depend on that. The company sells the CR-V around the world, builds it using some of the engineering and manufacturing tools used for the higher volume Honda Civic.

Beyond that, the CR-V represents a better solution to the challenge from customers such as Ms. Nison. As is often the case when Japanese auto makers attack a segment invented by Detroit, it has taken Honda three generations to really get it right. The first generation CR-V was too small for many. The second generation model was too drab -- by Honda's own admission. Generation III, launched in 2007, combines an efficient interior package, five-star front and side crash-test ratings, AND styling that is sportier on the outside, and clever and uncluttered on the inside.

One other wise choice Honda made was to keep the CR-V a four-cylinder model, with highway fuel economy rated at 30 mpg for two-wheel-drive models, 28 for the all-wheel drive.

On the road, the CR-V is quiet, and at just over 3,500 pounds, it is less ponderous and easier to maneuver than a standard SUV. It also does better on the government rollover test, scoring four stars to an Explorer's three.

What's the lesson for Detroit? The Detroit auto makers already know. . The demise of the Explorer doesn't mean Americans don't want to drive vehicles with all wheel drive, lots of cargo space and a tall driver's seating position. A large segment of the car buying public wants all that -- just with better handling, more safety technology and better fuel economy. That's why even as the Explorer fades away, Ford (and GM and Chrysler) are rushing out more vehicles to compete with the CR-V and its larger brother, the Honda Pilot, and enjoying success. Ford's total "crossover" sales are up 83% in June, even as overall Ford sales fell 8%. An internal Ford tally finds that Ford -- including its European luxury brands -- is now the leading seller of crossover vehicles in the U.S., with GM close behind.

Ford, in fact, has a shot at wrestling back the No. 1 SUV in America title from the CR-V if it can continue to boost demand for its recently redesigned Escape (See related article).

• Send comments about Eyes on the Road to joseph.white@wsj.com.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 05:46 PM
  #2  
LexFather
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Amazing. The CR-V went from bland to ugly to a sin to look at and it sells that well. Outside of that, its gotten bigger, its always been comfy and easy to drive and it is a 4 cylinder only. Amazing. Amazing. Honda figured out what people were wanting.

Well the Explorer was the king for a long time, it was carlike in a truck package. They should have moved it to a car based platform and make it more carlike. Thing is, I think the current Explorer is stellar. Styling, it does look pretty much like the 1st gen, i.e way to safe, but its sure as hell ain't no ugly Honda SUV.

Amazing. Amazing.

I wonder if the "Firestone' thing is still in people's minds and has hurt Explorer sales?

Another thing is we went from a handful of SUVs to having more SUV options than cars!!! Something had to give.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 05:50 PM
  #3  
GSteg's Avatar
GSteg
Rookie
iTrader: (15)
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 16,017
Likes: 81
From: CA
Default

It's an amazing feat, especially since Americans are very loyal to the Big 3's SUVs and Trucks.

The current Explorer is by far my favorite. I've always wanted a V8 model, but I dont think it would do too well in heavy traffic
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 05:52 PM
  #4  
LexFather
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Looking at the graph, its really more the Explorer sales falling off the map than CR-V gaining sales.
They went from what 420k a year to 180k???? That is nuts!!!
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 06:42 PM
  #5  
mmarshall's Avatar
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,223
Likes: 221
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Default

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
.

Well the Explorer was the king for a long time, it was carlike in a truck package. They should have moved it to a car based platform and make it more carlike. Thing is, I think the current Explorer is stellar. Styling, it does look pretty much like the 1st gen, i.e way to safe, but its sure as hell ain't no ugly Honda SUV.


I wonder if the "Firestone' thing is still in people's minds and has hurt Explorer sales?
Back then, Mike, in the early 1990's, when the original Explorer was establishing itself and became so popular, people WANTED truck-based SUV's, despite the firm ride and clumsy handling. Part of it was their big, soccer-mom hauling ability, and part of it (here we go with that word again) was just plain image......these vehicles presented minivan-capabilities with all-weather traction and a more "cool" body style than mundane-looking minivans.

Car-based SUV's and crossover vehicles didn't really get popular till the late 90's, with the advent of the Subaru Outback in 1995, the Toyota RAV-4 in 1996, and the Honda CR-V and Subaru Forester a year later. A lot of people decided they then wanted the all-weather traction and moderate carrying capability without the truck ride, truck handling, and truck gas mileage.

Like you, I have never liked the CR-V's styling (the current version, IMO, is somewhat better-looking than before), and the current Honda CR-V, from what I have seen of it, seems to be a superb all-around vehicle and daily driver....though, of course, I prefer the somewhat lower-stance, more carlike Outback with its simpler AWD system. My Division Chief, after consulting my opinion on it, just bought a new CR-V for his wife...she loves it. I have not driven the latest version yet, but plan a review of it in the near future. Its Consumer Reports reliability rating is just superlative.....one of the best on the market, despite its transverse-mounted engine/AWD system that is more complex than the Subaru AWD systems.

As far as the Firetone question goes, Explorers no longer use Firestone tires. Ford, in a well-publicized move, severed the contract it had with Firestone....a union dating back some 100 years when Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone personally signed the contract themselves.

Last edited by mmarshall; Jul 22, 2007 at 07:00 PM.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 07:19 PM
  #6  
thetopdog's Avatar
thetopdog
Lead Lap
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
From: MA
Default

23 mpg is unacceptable for a car that has barely more capability than a Civic Hatchback, I don't understand why people buy these things
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 07:22 PM
  #7  
UberNoob's Avatar
UberNoob
Lexus Fanatic
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles/Vancouver
Default

nice, Honda did a good job with it

im wondering where would RAV4 be if it is on that chart
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 07:27 PM
  #8  
mmarshall's Avatar
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,223
Likes: 221
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Default

Originally Posted by thetopdog
23 mpg is unacceptable for a car that has barely more capability than a Civic Hatchback, I don't understand why people buy these things
Well, the weight and drag of AWD takes its toll in gas mileage and acceleration. That's no secret...never has been. But, are the traction and stability advantages worth it? IMO, you bet.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 07:43 PM
  #9  
Lexmex's Avatar
Lexmex
CL Community Team
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 17,321
Likes: 204
From: Miami, Florida
Default

CRV and the RAV4 are the two biggest sellers for Honda and Toyota down here, respectively, so I am not surprised.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 07:47 PM
  #10  
mmarshall's Avatar
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,223
Likes: 221
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Default

Originally Posted by Lexmex
CRV and the RAV4 are the two biggest sellers for Honda and Toyota down here, respectively, so I am not surprised.
On relatively civilized road surfaces in Mexico City where you live, yes, I can see that, but in the more rural parts of Mexico, you are probably better off with a truck-based SUV or purpose-built off-roader like a Jeep Wrangler.....if you can find decent gas for it in that environment.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 07:52 PM
  #11  
LexFather
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Seriously look at this thing....makes the Element look like a model..

Badge it a Ford or GM, it would be discontinued b/c of slow sales. B/C its a Honda, people actually buy them.

Its a great vehicle, wrapped in one of the worst exterior designs of recent memory. Chris Bangle even laughs at it
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 08:02 PM
  #12  
Lexmex's Avatar
Lexmex
CL Community Team
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 17,321
Likes: 204
From: Miami, Florida
Default

Originally Posted by mmarshall
On relatively civilized road surfaces in Mexico City where you live, yes, I can see that, but in the more rural parts of Mexico, you are probably better off with a truck-based SUV or purpose-built off-roader like a Jeep Wrangler.....if you can find decent gas for it in that environment.
Correct, Wrangler, Chevy (Geo) Tracker are what you see mostly in northern Mexico. It seems a lot of people outside the metro areas also like big SUVs, Durango, Suburban. Oh the gas is the pits outside of metro areas, I blew one of my precats taking gas out there a few years back.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 08:07 PM
  #13  
plex's Avatar
plex
1UZFE/2JZGTE
iTrader: (11)
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,273
Likes: 76
From: MD
Default

It was only a matter of time, buyers have changed over the years.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 09:58 PM
  #14  
toy4two's Avatar
toy4two
Lexus Champion
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,979
Likes: 0
From: ca
Default

no joke when we rented a uhaul trailer for our move it says right on the contract "UHaul will not rent any trailers to owners of Ford Explorers". That amazed me. Our Rx300 towed it fine.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2007 | 10:02 PM
  #15  
bitkahuna's Avatar
bitkahuna
CL Community Team
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 80,472
Likes: 3,829
Default

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Amazing. The CR-V went from bland to ugly to a sin to look at and it sells that well. Outside of that, its gotten bigger, its always been comfy and easy to drive and it is a 4 cylinder only. Amazing. Amazing. Honda figured out what people were wanting.

Well the Explorer was the king for a long time, it was carlike in a truck package. They should have moved it to a car based platform and make it more carlike. Thing is, I think the current Explorer is stellar. Styling, it does look pretty much like the 1st gen, i.e way to safe, but its sure as hell ain't no ugly Honda SUV.

Amazing. Amazing.

I wonder if the "Firestone' thing is still in people's minds and has hurt Explorer sales?

Another thing is we went from a handful of SUVs to having more SUV options than cars!!! Something had to give.
Since I bought one (Explorer), here's my $0.02... I did look at the last gen CR-V when I was shopping (no thanks). I looked at the Pilot too, but found it was quite noisy on the road - Honda not being into noise deadening material much. Anyway, the new CR-V is very nice, for what it is. It's almost a minivan.

Anyway, it's done well and Explorer sales have gone down mainly because of fuel economy. The Explorer is big and heavy and can tow a lot, but like a Range Rover's off road capability, it's not that important to most people.

Besides, the thread headline comparing CR-V sales to Explorer is pretty irrelevant today, as Ford has Edge and Escape CUV sales also so they've fragmented their own sales even. I think the Edge is pretty sharp, and it's selling quite well.
Reply



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:17 PM.