You know, we have gone round and round in a number of threads on this and I think that all your points are well made. The reason to buy a hybrid today is emotionally driven, not financially. I would really like to get better mileage but with my GS I put in about 600 gallons a year, more or less. If I save 20% of that, who knows what I would really save with a GS450h, even at $3 a gallon, thats about $360 a year. Just on that basis alone it would take me almost ten years of ownership to pay for the hybrid option assuming the hybrid option is $3600, unfortunately it is not so in order to make an apples to apples comparison, I have to load a base version up with whatever extra things Lexus wants to put on the hybrid. If they put something on the hybrid that I don't want, I can't use it in the comparison of prices as I wouldn't buy that option. And of course, the pricing matter is skewed even further by the premium that dealers will get on the GS hybrid when it comes out. But you know, with all that has been written about the poor economics of hybrid ownership in the press, it would seem that Lexus should have dyno motors available for a long time along side.

By the way, I haven't gotten into it in too much detail yet but the Motor Trend comparo on hybrids out now says the Camry lost 30% of its trunk to batteries. You are definitely right about this technology being better suited to larger and purpose built vehicles.

 

That is why the parties on opposing sides thus far have not come together in any sort of agreement over most hybrids. It looks like there are 3 types of potential hybrid buyers.

1) Those that want to save money from saving on gas ASAP. This isn't going to happen until at least 4-6 years depending on which hybrid.

2) Those that want the added performace some of the performance hybrids offer. At this point in the game, since performance in a performance car is more importent to most of those type of buyers, you might as well just get a Corvertte Z06 and call it the day. Who cares about gas mileage when you can make 600 WHP with a little tuning.

3) Those that want to do their part to save the environment. You can't argue about this as they are doint a good thing. Its just that not everyone is into it right now.



That is what I was thinking. I just don''t see a large market for the used hybrids on the market now. In 5-8 years the hybried technology will be s far advanced to where it is now, that why would anyone want old technology at a premium over the same non hybrid model car? If those people are correct in saying a hybrid will hold a better value after 5 years than its non hybrid version, that would make a used one even more expensive than its non hybrid model even used. Hybrid prices can only come down if/when this technology becomes more widespread in the industry and there are more competition to choose from. In 5 years there is no way I would buy a used hybrid when a perfectly good more advanced new hybrid will probably be more readily available with less of a premium.

 

you quoted the CR story but not their update.....

"The dollars & sense of hybrids

Gas/electric hybrid vehicles can present a dilemma for car buyers. On one hand, they are more fuel-efficient and produce lower emissions than conventional, gasoline-only vehicles. Most current models have also scored well in our testing and are highly rated in our reliability and owner-satisfaction surveys. But hybrids are typically priced thousands of dollars higher than similar all-gas models.

So, for people who believe that hybrids will also save them money, the picture hasn't been so clear. That's why Consumer Reports investigated all of the major ownership costs and financial benefits of these models. The study reveals two notable findings:


In our analysis, only two of the six hybrids we have tested recovered their price premium in the first five years and 75,000 miles of ownership (see Hybrids vs. all gas). The Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid provide a savings of about $400 and $300, respectively, over that period. But that is only if buyers are able to take advantage of limited federal tax credits. Extra ownership costs over five years for the other four models ranged from about $1,900 to $5,500, compared with those of similar all-gas models.


The benefits and costs of hybrids vary significantly, depending on the model. Because of the wide range of hybrid vehicles available, it's especially important for consumers to look carefully at all aspects of the vehicle before buying.


The benefits of hybrids

The rising price of gasoline and concern over U.S. dependence on oil have generated a lot of interest in hybrids, and with good reason. They typically deliver the best fuel economy in their classes. The Prius and Civic Hybrid delivered an excellent 44 and 37 mpg, respectively, in our real-world fuel-economy tests, which is the best gas mileage we've measured in any five-passenger vehicles. The Ford Escape Hybrid, which achieved the best fuel economy of any SUV we've recently tested, can save you about $660 per year in gasoline costs.

Hybrids emit less pollution, with some models classified as Partial Zero Emission Vehicles by the California Air Resources Board. Each gallon of gasoline not burned prevents the emission of 19 pounds of carbon dioxide, which many believe contributes to global warming.

Several hybrids--the Honda Accord, Lexus RX400h, Toyota Highlander, and Toyota Prius--are outstanding overall packages that score at or near the top of their categories in our Ratings (available to subscribers). Not only do the Accord, Highlander, and RX400h provide moderately better fuel economy than their conventional counterparts, but they also provide notably quicker acceleration. The Highlander and Prius are among our Top Picks for 2006.

So far, hybrids have shown excellent reliability in our Annual Car Reliability Survey. And owners are passionate about them, rating them among the best in our Annual Car Owner Satisfaction Survey.

In California, some hybrid drivers can use special car-pool lanes regardless of the number of occupants in the vehicle, a considerable benefit for commuters in traffic-choked areas. In Virginia, all hybrid drivers have this advantage. There are also federal and state tax incentives.

These benefits add up to an inviting package for many car buyers who are willing to pay a premium for them. But for those who believe that one of a hybrid's attractions is that it will save them money, our figures show that even the most cost-effective models require an investment of about five years to break even."

oh....as far as residual value of hybrids go........look at what 2004-up Prius sell for on Ebay....and they're only getting HIGHER!

same with the Civic