Okay, we have pretty much perpetual threads talking about what's wrong with Acura and how they can compete again in the same league as Lexus. Two common complaints I hear tossed around (even from those I suspect don't know the first thing about what they're really saying except to parrot the party line) is that they don't have RWD sedans and their flagship sedan doesn't have a V8. Other common points made are that they are too downmarket (RSX starts too cheap), their designs are uninspired or boring, and that they share too many parts and therefore the feel from their Honda heritage.

If EVERYTHING ELSE STAYED EXACTLY THE SAME, and Acura made the TL and RL RWD and added a beefy V8 powerplant to the RL, would that alone redeem the brand in detractors' eyes? Let them keep the RSX, TSX, NSX, and MDX the same. Maybe the price of the RL jumps by a few grand. But all the features and designs stay the same and the dealer network maintains its position well above average in the marketplace. We could even project that future redesigns will be more like the new TL, which is to say that they will differ drastically in aesthetics and execution from their Honda cousins. Would those two changes put Acura back in the big leagues?

 

Yup. That's the thing. It seems like it would all be so simple to do but they just don't wanna do it. I still believe they do actually like the niche they're in. Between Honda/Toyota and Lexus/MB/BMW. They really don't have competition for where they sit.

James

 

Another question is whether Acura's service and customer satisfaction is as good as Lexus. I have received great service from my Lexus dealership and Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department. My past encounters with several Honda dealerships and Honda Customer Satisfaction were . The dealerships can't fix the problem and Honda Customer Satisfaction did nothing.

 

The RWD would open them up. They do assemble a competent car with many good attributes, yet their product does not strike me enough to consider them seriously. It would be interesting to see them offer a product that would be comparable to the GS and LS.

 

I think Acura is a good company that makes near-luxury cars for value minded customers. Besides the NSX the only Acuras i have ever liked was the Legend Sedan & Coupe.

I considered the TL before i got my GS........ The TL had more power and more features plus it was much cheaper but i still got the GS. I wouldn't buy Acura for these reasons, in order of importance to me:
1) Styling sucks(this is subjective)
2) Platforms and Engines are shared with Hondas costing thousands less
3)Lack of prestige, which i base on what the company represents. (Infiniti has greatly improved in this area the last few years but what does Acura want be????)
4) Made in US

 

Yes. If Acura brings V8 and RWD, that would be a big plus for Acura. If they improve their quality/reliability and customer service, I would seriously consider Acuras. But that's easier said than done.

I would get Hyundais and kIAs if they can provide V8, RWD, good quality, great customer service, and non-imitated cars, I would consider those too.

If I'm going to spend alot of money on a car it better has everything from performance to quality and even service. That's exactly why Lexus is doing great, and Acura is not. If they can improve on those things it'll just be a matter of time when Acura catches up.

That's exactly why BMW and Mercedes resale values are dropping, because they just don't have the quality to back up their heritage anymore. Right now only Lexus can offer everything in a nice package, and not seriously lacking something in any particular dimension (Acura's RWD and V8 dimension, Mercedes/BMW's quality dimensions, all of KIA's dimensions, etc.)

 

I don't think we'll see RWD Acuras in significant numbers anytime soon....Acura is simply a North American name for some upscale Hondas that are sold in other countries under different Honda names.
And, of course, Honda's primary engineering aim is to build cars for efficiency and traction, hence the FWD layout. Once in a while, they will depart from this routine for a specific reason, like the front engine / rear-drive S2000 to compete with BMW Z3/4's, tuned Miatas, Boxsters, 350Z's, etc... and the mid-engine, RWD NSX ..... but for the most part Honda sticks with FWD.
Of course, if I'm wrong and we DO see some RWD Acuras.......so much the better.

 

Just those two changes would get them into the Minor leagues; but not the majors...

they'd still have to fix their tarnished image in the luxury world (which their image is a Honda with a different badge, no real advantages other than that)
their service isnt that great; and their product line looks bland overall

One thing they could do (or any company actually) to help their sales to performance crowds, is make an affordable RWD 2+2 4cyl turbo car... by affordable I mean sub $25k... WRX-price territory

 

Living in Mexico, I live without an official Acura or Lexus presence. Infiniti only has two models the J30 and Q45. Acura is planning an entrance with 3 models in the largest cities around October 2004. Lexus is supposed to come as soon as they finalize the Japan-Mexico Trade Treaty.

I guarantee you that Acura is going to have a harder time in Mexico than the U.S. Honda cars typically have suspect transmissions and lousy suspensions. The same could be said for Infiniti suspensions. Honda's are looked upon favorably for quality and handling, and not much else. In addition, to get a Honda serviced at the dealer requires mucho bucks.

The other thing with a Acura/Honda, and the same goes for some of the Infiniti models, is that the cars look too much like each other. Look at an MDX vs a Pilot or any of the car models versus a Civic or Honda. In fact, I have been in Honda showrooms when the salesperson tells them not to wait for the MDX, as the Pilot is the same car.

You take Lexus models vs. their Toyota counterparts, and the designs are different enough not to have this problem. People do not believe me when my diplomatic friend shows his Highlander vs. my RX300 and say they are supposed to be brother vehicles.

 

Very insightful stuff. I won't even begin on why Acura just doesn't have the "mojo". Nothing wrong with em, very nice cars but nothing to make me leave Lexus..

 

Remember how much the old Integra looked like the CRX or the old Legend like an Accord?

Remember that the idea behind Acura was quality, nothing more.

When Infiniti came on the scene, there was some interior styling some exterior flare, but not until very recently (you know the models) did they really get the style to attract people. Only the Acura NSX has that mojo.

It may sound strange to a foreigner or an American, but here in Mexico, people will pay extraordinary amounts for otherwise dumb looking designs, Pacifica and the Pathfinder Armada. It is nothing more than a giant price sticker to show off to friends. People fall into all the ad hype here, and they just have to have something.

Recently, a friend of mine bought a Chevy (Opel Astra) over an Audi A3 and a Mini Cooper.

The price was not the issue, and the Astra cost even more in the model he bought, but he fell in love with the hype surrounding it. This thing looks like nothing more than a space-age Chevy Cavalier.

I am glad that us Lexus owners see the light, and don't think like this.

 

Yes, RWD alone would make me give Acura some props. But Honda has never been a RWD company, and the said not too long ago that they will not make an effort to move to RWD. They will probably go AWD and try to compete with Volvo or Audi.

As much as I hate on Honda and Acura, I still have respect for them. They build good cars.

In fact, and don't hate me people, I'm considering a base RSX 5-speed manual as my next car. I'll probably be looking to buy sometime in May/June. The Scion tC interests me, but I have my reservations.
The RSX seems to have a really good reputation and high quality in regard to materials and build. It's no Lexus, that's for sure, but it'll probably out-shine the Scion. I think those base models can be had for about $18.5K-$19K, so the couple extra grand over the Scion would be worth it in terms of warranty and possibly a slightly better dealership experience as well as better seats and a nicer interior.

In fact, the only reservation I have about the RSX is an emotional one. My blood flows Toyota Red, and it really would be painful to "make the switch."

 

With the RSX-Scion comparison, you're comparing apples and oranges. I agree the RSX is a lot more car.....it's quite a bit more expensive and upsale than the Scion TC. The Scion TC is basically a replacement for the old Toyota Paseo, which was essentially a rebodied Tercel, a base entry-level subcompact. The RSX is built on the top-of-the-line version of the Civic platform, which was a compact, not an entry-level subcompact. The RSX is specifically designed as a semi pocket-rocket and sells in the mid-to-high 20's, while the Scion TC is designed as a commuter-class car with a little style to it and sells in mid-to-high-teens.
Frankly, ( just my opinion ) unless one has to haul bulky things that need the Scion Xa or Xb's boxy styling, I don't know who in their right mind would choose one over a TC.....both are as ugly as a Pontiac Aztek.

 

The tC is based on the Avensis platform, which is Toyota's premium midsize car in Europe. It's just a tad smaller than the Camry. The suspension is derived from the current Celica. The tC will certainly be nothing like a Tercel or Paseo.

The RSX 5-speed manual w/cloth has a price of $20.5K. The tC is expected to be "well below $20K" which probably means around $18K (some estimates believe it to be around $17K, but that's too optimistic IMHO). Scions sell for sticker price, so the price match-up would be pretty dead-on (assuming such an RSX can be had for about $18.5K).

I'm sure the tC will out-brake the RSX on account of it's larger stoppers and 17x7 wheels.
Acceleration may be a draw. The tC will have 160HP/163TQ. Handling may be a draw as well.

I really like the tC's front end, but the RSX wins in the rear and side profile. I'm going to try to go for a test drive sometime this week. If I'm sufficiently impressed, I may not even wait to test drive a tC (which is now rumored to have its launch pushed back to July on the east coast) and just purchase the RSX in May.

The upcoming Corolla XRS looks interesting, but it will have the Celica's peaky engine and 6-speed and probably top out close to $20K with a few options.

A great deal will depend on the insurance, which I will call about this afternoon. I don't think I'd be making a poor choice with any of these cars, but it will be a choice I will have to/want to live with for the next 10 years.

 

You make some points. In Europe the TC would be considered mid-size. Here it is clearly a small car.
Acura must have dropped the RSX's price ....I have not heard of them in the low 20' s. But I'll take your word for it, though.....since it is being marketed essentially to the former Integra crowd, not exactly millionaires.

Part of my buisness is the auto market, and I agree that the TC looks like a bargain and will probably outsell the RSX.....especially with the simple no-haggle Saturn-style pricing and the wide range of factory options and accessories. with the 160 HP engine it will be a good competitor to the Civic Si.


(You're correct...I forgot that the TC had a lot more engine than the Tercel / Paseo. Thanks)