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Old Jul 4, 2025 | 05:42 PM
  #226  
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Originally Posted by LeX2K
Go ask Grok yourself it took into account everything.
ok then...


how will lost hills supercharger become profitable?

The profitability of Tesla’s Lost Hills “Oasis” Supercharger station, the world’s largest with 168 stalls, hinges on several factors, including its operational model, revenue streams, and cost management. While specific financial data for the station isn’t publicly available, we can analyze its potential profitability based on available information about its design, location, and Tesla’s broader Supercharger strategy.

### Revenue Streams
1. **Charging Fees**:
- The Lost Hills Supercharger charges a base rate of $0.62 per kWh for all electric vehicles (EVs). With 84 stalls currently operational (and 168 planned), the station can handle significant throughput. Assuming an average charge of 82 kWh per vehicle (as estimated for similar stations) and a 15-minute charging session delivering 200 miles of range, each stall could theoretically serve multiple vehicles per hour.[](https://www.eonmsk.com/2025/07/03/te...ls-california/)[](https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/23...s-and-canopies)[](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...un-253927.html)
- At full capacity, with 168 stalls and an estimated 4,896 vehicles daily (assuming 15 minutes to charge and 5 minutes to park/plug in over 12 hours), the station could generate substantial revenue. For example, if each vehicle uses 82 kWh at $0.62/kWh, that’s $50.84 per charge. At 4,896 vehicles daily, this equates to roughly $248,914 per day, or about $90.8 million annually, assuming consistent demand.[](https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/23...s-and-canopies)
- Realistically, demand will vary, but the station’s strategic location on Interstate 5, a busy EV corridor between San Francisco and Los Angeles, ensures high traffic, especially during peak travel seasons like holidays.[](https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...ttery-storage/)

2. **Idle Fees**:
- Tesla imposes idle fees (up to $1.00 per minute) to discourage vehicles from lingering after charging, maximizing stall turnover. This can add incremental revenue, particularly during peak times when stalls are in high demand.[](https://www.tesla.com/findus/locatio...rcharger/18458)

3. **Non-Tesla EV Charging**:
- The station is open to non-Tesla EVs via adapters or Tesla’s North American Charging Standard (NACS), adopted by major automakers like Ford, GM, and Rivian. This expands the customer base, increasing utilization and revenue potential as EV adoption grows.[](https://www.fool.com/research/tesla-...rger-stations/)

4. **Potential Amenities**:
- The planned driver lounge (set to open later in 2025) could offer food, beverages, or other services, creating additional revenue streams similar to Tesla’s unique Supercharger sites (e.g., the Los Angeles diner concept).[](https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...ttery-storage/)[](https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-164-...er-california/)

### Cost Management
1. **Off-Grid Operation**:
- The station’s 11 MW solar array and 10 Megapacks (39 MWh storage) allow it to operate largely off-grid, significantly reducing electricity costs. With an average of 7.5 solar hours daily, the system can charge approximately 1,000 vehicles per day without grid reliance, assuming 82 kWh per vehicle. This minimizes exposure to high utility rates in California, where commercial electricity can be costly.[](https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...ttery-storage/)[](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...un-253927.html)

2. **Low Grid Dependency**:
- The station’s 1.5 MW grid connection is minimal, used primarily as a backup or for future expansion. This reduces demand charges and reliance on grid infrastructure, which can be expensive during peak periods.[](https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/23...s-and-canopies)

3. **Economies of Scale**:
- The station’s large scale (168 stalls across 30 acres) spreads fixed costs (land, equipment, installation) over more charging sessions. Tesla’s construction costs for Supercharger stations range from $100,000 to $270,000, depending on size and features, but the Lost Hills station’s pre-assembled units and vertical integration likely keep costs closer to the lower end. The use of 30 pre-assembled Supercharger units (4 stalls each) streamlines installation.[](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger)[](https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...ls-california/)

4. **Long-Term Asset Life**:
- Tesla estimates a 12-year useful life for Supercharger stations, meaning the initial capital investment (e.g., solar panels, Megapacks, and stalls) can be amortized over a long period, reducing annual costs. Maintenance costs for solar and battery systems are relatively low, further supporting profitability.[](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger)

### Strategic Advantages
1. **High Demand Location**:
- Positioned near Highway 46 and I-5, Lost Hills serves a critical EV corridor with heavy traffic. Its proximity to existing large Superchargers (e.g., Harris Ranch with 98 stalls, 50 miles away) indicates strong regional demand, which the Oasis station can capture. The inclusion of 12 pull-through stalls caters to larger vehicles like the Tesla Cybertruck, broadening appeal.[](https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...ls-california/)[](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...s_a_168_stall/)[](https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...ls-california/)

2. **Sustainability and Regulatory Benefits**:
- California’s renewable energy mandates (60% clean energy by 2030) align with the station’s solar-powered design, potentially qualifying it for state incentives or tax credits, though recent federal policy changes (e.g., Trump’s “Big, Beautiful Bill”) may reduce some benefits. Even without incentives, the off-grid model lowers operational costs.[](https://evxl.co/2025/04/16/lost-hill...-charging-hub/)[](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...un-253927.html)

3. **Brand and Network Value**:
- The Oasis station reinforces Tesla’s leadership in EV charging infrastructure, enhancing brand loyalty and attracting customers to its vehicles and ecosystem. Opening the network to non-Tesla EVs also positions Tesla as a dominant player in the broader EV market, potentially increasing market share and indirect revenue.[](https://www.fool.com/research/tesla-...rger-stations/)

### Challenges to Profitability
1. **High Initial Investment**:
- The 30-acre site, 11 MW solar array, and 10 Megapacks represent a significant upfront cost. While Tesla’s vertical integration reduces expenses, the project’s scale likely required millions in capital, which could delay profitability until utilization ramps up.

2. **Variable Demand**:
- Revenue projections assume high utilization, but seasonal fluctuations or lower-than-expected EV traffic could reduce income. The station’s off-grid design mitigates energy cost risks but requires consistent solar output, which could be impacted by extended cloudy periods.[](https://evxl.co/2025/04/16/lost-hill...-charging-hub/)

3. **Competition**:
- Competitors like Electrify America and ChargePoint are scaling up, and while Tesla’s network is the largest (over 7,000 stations, 65,800 connectors globally), rivals could challenge its dominance if they offer competitive pricing or faster charging (e.g., 800-volt systems).[](https://evxl.co/2025/04/16/lost-hill...-charging-hub/)[](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger)

4. **Regulatory Risks**:
- California’s grid operator (CAISO) may impose restrictions on the 1.5 MW grid tie-in, and future expansion could face permitting delays. Changes in federal or state EV incentives could also affect long-term economics.[](https://evxl.co/2025/04/16/lost-hill...-charging-hub/)[](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...un-253927.html)

### Profitability Outlook
The Lost Hills Supercharger is well-positioned for profitability due to its high-capacity design, strategic location, and off-grid operation, which minimizes energy costs. Revenue from charging fees, idle fees, and potential amenities, combined with Tesla’s cost-efficient construction and long asset life, supports a strong financial case. Assuming moderate to high utilization (e.g., 50–75% of the 4,896 daily vehicle capacity), the station could generate millions annually, potentially covering its initial investment within a few years. The expansion to non-Tesla EVs and California’s growing EV market (1.3 million registrations) further bolster its prospects.[](https://www.fool.com/research/tesla-...rger-stations/)

However, profitability depends on sustained demand, effective maintenance of solar and battery systems, and navigating regulatory challenges. While exact breakeven timelines are speculative without detailed cost data, the station’s design and Tesla’s track record suggest it could become a profitable flagship for the Supercharger network by leveraging scale, sustainability, and market dominance. For further details on Tesla’s Supercharger strategy, visit www.tesla.com.[](https://www.tesla.com/supercharger)
so say this is a 'rosy' assessment is an understatement.

on the one hand they say the place could handle nearly 5000 cars a day but then they say the grid power could handle 1000 cars a day. so they're expecting the solar array and batteries to cover 80% of the load, all say, every day with an average recharge of 82kWh.

hey i hope it works out! i'm still a tsla shareholder, lol.
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 05:48 PM
  #227  
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i asked gemini the same:

Lost Hills Supercharger: A Blueprint for Profitability in EV Charging



Lost Hills, CA – Tesla's ambitious new Supercharger station in Lost Hills, aptly named "Oasis," is poised to become a blueprint for profitability in the rapidly expanding electric vehicle charging market. Through a combination of massive scale, strategic location, and innovative energy solutions, this flagship station is designed to overcome the economic hurdles that have challenged the charging industry.

Strategically located on Interstate 5, a major artery connecting Northern and Southern California, the Lost Hills Supercharger is set to become the world's largest. Having partially opened in mid-2025 with 84 charging stalls, the station is slated to expand to a colossal 168 stalls. This sheer scale is a fundamental component of its path to profitability, as it can service a high volume of vehicles, maximizing utilization and revenue potential.

What truly sets the Lost Hills station apart is its forward-thinking approach to energy management. The site features a vast 11-megawatt solar array and a 39-megawatt-hour battery storage system, utilizing 10 of Tesla's own Megapacks. This allows the station to operate largely off-grid, generating its own clean electricity and storing it for use during peak times or when solar generation is low. By minimizing reliance on the traditional power grid, Tesla can significantly reduce its operational costs, a key factor in achieving profitability. The ability to avoid high demand charges from utility companies, especially during peak hours, provides a substantial competitive advantage.

The station's revenue model is straightforward: customers are billed per kilowatt-hour of energy consumed, with additional idle fees to encourage efficient use of the stalls. This pricing structure, coupled with the high traffic volume expected at this prime location, creates a direct and scalable income stream.

Furthermore, the Lost Hills Supercharger benefits from Tesla's broader strategy of opening its network to other electric vehicle manufacturers. This move dramatically expands the potential customer base beyond Tesla owners, further boosting the station's utilization rate and, consequently, its revenue.

The "Oasis" is more than just a charging station; it's a destination. Plans for a driver's lounge and other amenities will enhance the customer experience, potentially creating additional revenue opportunities through partnerships and retail.

In conclusion, the Lost Hills Supercharger's profitability hinges on a multi-faceted strategy:
  • Massive Scale: The sheer number of charging stalls allows for high vehicle throughput.
  • Prime Location: Situated on a heavily trafficked interstate, guaranteeing high demand.
  • Energy Independence: On-site solar generation and battery storage drastically reduce energy costs.
  • Open Network: Access for non-Tesla EVs significantly expands the customer base.
  • Enhanced Amenities: Future plans for a driver's lounge create potential for additional revenue streams.
By pioneering this model of a large-scale, semi-independent charging hub, Tesla is not only addressing the critical need for robust EV infrastructure but is also paving the way for a financially sustainable future for the entire electric vehicle ecosystem. The success of the Lost Hills "Oasis" could very well become the standard for profitable charging infrastructure worldwide.
sounds great but then i clicked on the useful 'sources' button under that...

one might call those 'the usual suspects'... lol

Old Jul 4, 2025 | 05:54 PM
  #228  
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Dunno why you're so pessimistic, Tesla knows how to make money.
However, profitability depends on sustained demand, effective maintenance of solar and battery systems, and navigating regulatory challenges. While exact breakeven timelines are speculative without detailed cost data, the station’s design and Tesla’s track record suggest it could become a profitable flagship for the Supercharger network by leveraging scale, sustainability, and market dominance.
This is generic slop.

Anyway this thread is for technical discussions not to argue about financials.
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 06:01 PM
  #229  
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This directly affects Tesla because Grok will be in their cars soon (looking forward to this).


I'm speculation but Grok as a personal assistant will be part of the app for people in the Robotaxi network, Grok and your settings will follow you regardless of the Cybercab you're in. And in your Tesla if you own one.
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 06:05 PM
  #230  
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where 'overseas' is the power plant coming from?
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 06:10 PM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by LeX2K
Dunno why you're so pessimistic, Tesla knows how to make money.
yes but i'm skeptical about a solar charging station making money. and even if it works in sunny california, let's see how it goes in minnesota, lol.
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 06:35 PM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
where 'overseas' is the power plant coming from?
Very likely China.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
yes but i'm skeptical about a solar charging station making money. and even if it works in sunny california, let's see how it goes in minnesota, lol.
Since this isn't in Minnesota doesn't seem relevant. This is on brand everything Tesla has ever done has been met with extreme skepticism from you.
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 06:35 PM
  #233  
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Trying to poke holes in a theory is called "falsification".

It's legit method for testing theories and part of the scientific method, myself and many others use it daily.

I don't see it as negative to question EVERYTHING. Lol

Ps, many videos on youtube about falsification so I'll leave it there. 😁

Last edited by Margate330; Jul 4, 2025 at 06:37 PM.
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Old Jul 4, 2025 | 06:39 PM
  #234  
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Testing theories is guessing nothing beats doing which is why Tesla made this solar and battery charging station. I'm going to assume they did the math and didn't blindly build it without any idea on profitability. At worst this is a proof of concept which will allow Tesla to learn, optimize cost and other factors so they can expand out this type of installation.
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 06:48 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by LeX2K
Testing theories is guessing nothing beats doing which is why Tesla made this solar and battery charging station. I'm going to assume they did the math and didn't blindly build it without any idea on profitability. At worst this is a proof of concept which will allow Tesla to learn, optimize cost and other factors so they can expand out this type of installation.
Of course but assumptions are made.
It can become a money pit for many reasons.

Just a few things I can think of.
(1): maybe people won't pay $50 to charge their ev
(2): neighborhood goes down hill and people are scared away due to high crime
(3): poor management resulting in broken chargers and long waits that run off regular customers.

Etc,
I hope for their success of course but if we can't poke and theorize too, why should we bother to post. Lol

I want to hear everyones ideas, even the wrong ones. Haha 🫸🫷😁
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 06:55 PM
  #236  
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All the assumptions are on the negative side do I have that right?
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 07:03 PM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by Margate330
Of course but assumptions are made.
It can become a money pit for many reasons.

Just a few things I can think of.
(1): maybe people won't pay $50 to charge their ev
(2): neighborhood goes down hill and people are scared away due to high crime
(3): poor management resulting in broken chargers and long waits that run off regular customers.

Etc,
I hope for their success of course but if we can't poke and theorize too, why should we bother to post. Lol

I want to hear everyones ideas, even the wrong ones. Haha 🫸🫷😁
All your assumptions are wrong here because it's not built in a neighborhood, but literally in the middle of nowhere near one of the most traveled highways in world. People traveling between NorCal and SoCal and vice versa stop here for gas, food, bathroom breaks, and charging. No matter if it's 3pm or 3am
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 07:04 PM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by LeX2K
All the assumptions are on the negative side do I have that right?
he's not assuming those things will happen, he's outlining some risks.

i'm just saying the grok/gemini calcs seems incredibly optimistic. again, i hope it all comes true!
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 07:08 PM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by AMIRZA786
All your assumptions are wrong here because it's not built in a neighborhood, but literally in the middle of nowhere near one of the most traveled highways in world. People traveling between NorCal and SoCal and vice versa stop here for gas, food, bathroom breaks, and charging. No matter if it's 3pm or 3am
I made no assumptions or claims, only ideas and "what if's".

The problem I have here in Ev chat is the vigilance.
Chop members heads off and who's left to talk to... 🫸🫷
Old Jul 4, 2025 | 07:09 PM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by Margate330
I made no assumptions or claims, only ideas and "what if's".

The problem I have here in Ev chat is the vigilance.
Chop members heads off and who's left to talk to... 🫸🫷
Not chopping your head off, I apologize if you are taking it that way



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