Steve's correct on this one. Many Toyota interiors, for a number of years now, even in top-trim versions, DO look and feel cheap inside from bargain-basement materials. Toyota, at least until some of its recent trucks, puts most of its money into developing durable/reliable drivetrains that run like clockwork....but that shorts out the budget in some other areas.

 

It has been like this for 40+ years. Nothing surprising

 

Exactly my thoughts. As my daily, I would take something like an M2 or M3 Comp over some boring reliable car. The boring reliable car is for my wife 🤣

 

People complain a lot about the direction of BMW the last 10 years, both in styling and driving characteristics, but they continue to do well in sales while maintaining very high customer satisfaction....and their reliability has been strongly improving as well.

 

That's because the people doing the complaining are the "purists" and "enthusiasts", which are a small percentage of customers. BMW was smart to market to a wider customer base, even if the minority don't like it.

 

exactly, porsche and other 'niche' brands did same because they knew if they didn't they were finished. you have to build at scale unless you go WAY up market or you can't make money.

 

Well, IMO, the purists and enthusiasts have more of a right to complain than the others. They are the company's most loyal customers, often have owned more than one of the company's products as repeat-customers, do their part to help keep the company in buisness, and, if the company doesn't screw up their products, can be depended upon to return for more purchases or leases.

That, for example, was what got Cadillac in trouble, Some years ago, they forgot their regular customers, ignored those regular customers when they DID complain, pursued the Germans, tried to rebuild and rebrand their products as sport-oriented American BMWs, and, except for the (more or less) faithful group that likes and buys the Escalade, has suffered as a Division ever since.

 

No, I still like what I have always liked, I don't think I have changed much since 2015/2017. My S560 was $300 a month more than my LS460L, and my S580 is $650 more a month than my LS460L (LS was $1,200, S560 was $1,500, S580 is $1,850) Thats not a huge difference, adjusted for inflation $1,850 today was $1,440 in 2017.

If Lexus hadn't so considerably changed the LS in 2018 I almost certainly would still be driving one.

Give me a little credit please.

All of my Pacificas have had nappa leather. The Pacifica is the nicest van in the class, without question. The Odyssey and the Sienna feel terribly cheap inside. The PHEV powertrain gives it a smoothness and sophistication that is a huge upgrade from the gas Pacificas we had, and the addition of the new console inside and the suede headliner that come with the Pinnacle trim that didn't exist when I got the previous vans really kick it up a notch. The Pacifica just has a much nicer interior than the other vans with better plastics and switchgear. My SIL had an Odyssey and going back and forth between them shows you that pretty quickly.

In fact, she just got a Pacifica PHEV Pinnacle after driving ours.

 

? i know you like good leather and as i said, the phev is a nice step up. the pacifica is a very nice minivan.

 

I’m not “simply wowed by Napa leather”

 

You might (?) not be old enough to remember them, but, in the mid/late 1970s, celebrity Ricardo Montalban did a series of commercials trying to sell the Chrysler Cordoba personal-luxury coupe by the plushness of its interior and the rich "Corinthinan" Leather.

 

But the "corinthian leather" was garbage lol

 

Is it real leather?

 

It was cheap painted leather, like you would get on say a department store sofa

 

But Mr. Roarke told me it was "rich"? Are you telling me that wasn't true......?????