General Car Conversation 2024 - part 2
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,612
Likes: 1,852
From: Ohio
If I could get a PHEV add on for my W12 engines I would take it as long as it didn't weigh anything more so I could move them all around the garage or storage unit or do a small trip to the store and back. Plus I would hope it could contribute like 15 or hp maybe....if I could maintain overall weight I would even go so far as to say I would pay for CCB brakes to help offset the added weight of a light system.
I would still want a normal starter though and have no reliance on the add in system for normal operation.
I would still want a normal starter though and have no reliance on the add in system for normal operation.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 69,222
Likes: 4,220
From: Maryland
The other thing I would like to add is, you should at least try and experience something for yourself before forming an opinion on it. I thought BMW's were absolutely over rated...until I drove one and experienced it for myself. Also relying on what a friend tells you is a starting point, but they may have different experiences than you. They may love a car they own, and you may drive it and hate it or you may love it like they do. So it's best to drive them and evaluate them yourself.
Now if you absolutely are not interested in a certain type of vehicle, that's your right, and you don't have to justify it, and you can even criticize it all you want. Just don't be surprised if people question you on it, especially someone who actually owns or has driven the vehicle.
I just want to state this again, there is nothing wrong with owning or buying older vehicles, you won't hear any criticisms from me
Now if you absolutely are not interested in a certain type of vehicle, that's your right, and you don't have to justify it, and you can even criticize it all you want. Just don't be surprised if people question you on it, especially someone who actually owns or has driven the vehicle.
I just want to state this again, there is nothing wrong with owning or buying older vehicles, you won't hear any criticisms from me
Manufacturing processes have allowed for engines to be designed and built in a way where they don't wear out as fast as they did 30-40 years ago. It used to be an accomplishment for an engine to reach 100k.
Now it would be an utter embarrassment for it NOT to reach 250k or 300k.
Now it would be an utter embarrassment for it NOT to reach 250k or 300k.
My Dad's 1990 Lincoln Continental had failed air suspension, the electrochromic mirror fell off the windshield repeatedly, the leather was all cracked and destroyed, it had all kinds of mechanical problems....it was only 5 years old when he got rid of it. My Mom's 1987 Ford Aerostar, you had to hold the gas down when at a stop because it would stall, none of the power widows worked or the power door locks, it left us stranded multiple times going back and forth to WV...it was only 7 years old when they got rid ot if...now we don't even think of a 5 or 7 year old car as old.
Originally Posted by AJT123
If it costs 5 figures to fix valve cover gaskets, it ain't gonna be cheap when that 48v system starts ****ing up.
You have no basis from which to form this opinion other than your own preconceptions. Just be open to the possibility that your preconception isn't accurate
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 5,482
Likes: 89
From: N/A
i will say this though about older cars "lasting longer"... i think that impression comes from how older cars can run in a totally crappy state for a long time, whereas a modern car is more likely to work fine or just not work at all... it's also harder to DIY stuff on a modern car for someone who isn't mechanically inclined, or even for someone who is lol
Another factor is the tactility aspect - old cars have a more mechanical feel to them in how they operate from the door handles to switchgear that gives people the impression that they're in a quality product. Old Mercs especially nail that vibe. MM will go on and on about how the "door-closing thud" on modern cars are not as good as the ones from 20-30 years ago. But this doesn't translate to the longevity of a vehicle.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,945
Likes: 3,839
From: California
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,696
Likes: 290
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Manufacturing processes have allowed for engines to be designed and built in a way where they don't wear out as fast as they did 30-40 years ago. It used to be an accomplishment for an engine to reach 100k.
Now it would be an utter embarrassment for it NOT to reach 250k or 300k.
Now it would be an utter embarrassment for it NOT to reach 250k or 300k.
150K, or even 200K in some circumstances, OK, but, for most vehicles, 250-300K is really pushing it, even by today's standards.
Of course, there are some exceptions. Toyota's 4Runner and Land Cruiser, for example, are both known for routinely going to 200-300K.....but one cannot usually expect that from most vehicles, even with regular oil changes and maintenance.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,612
Likes: 1,852
From: Ohio
I think it's more just the age-old idea that more tech = more stuff that can break. Obviously this adage doesn't hold up otherwise we would still be driving cars with carburetors, but it's hard to overcome the human distrust of technology.
Another factor is the tactility aspect - old cars have a more mechanical feel to them in how they operate from the door handles to switchgear (usually made of metal) that gives people the impression that they're in a quality product. MM will go on and on about how the "door-closing thud" on modern cars are not as good as the ones from 20-30 years ago. But this doesn't translate to the longevity of a vehicle.
Another factor is the tactility aspect - old cars have a more mechanical feel to them in how they operate from the door handles to switchgear (usually made of metal) that gives people the impression that they're in a quality product. MM will go on and on about how the "door-closing thud" on modern cars are not as good as the ones from 20-30 years ago. But this doesn't translate to the longevity of a vehicle.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 69,222
Likes: 4,220
From: Maryland
150K, or even 200K in some circumstances, OK, but, for most vehicles, 250-300K is really pushing it, even by today's standards.
Of course, there are some exceptions. Toyota's 4Runner and Land Cruiser, for example, are both known for routinely going to 200-300K.....but one cannot usually expect that from most vehicles, even with regular oil changes and maintenance.
Of course, there are some exceptions. Toyota's 4Runner and Land Cruiser, for example, are both known for routinely going to 200-300K.....but one cannot usually expect that from most vehicles, even with regular oil changes and maintenance.
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Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,945
Likes: 3,839
From: California
If I could get a PHEV add on for my W12 engines I would take it as long as it didn't weigh anything more so I could move them all around the garage or storage unit or do a small trip to the store and back. Plus I would hope it could contribute like 15 or hp maybe....if I could maintain overall weight I would even go so far as to say I would pay for CCB brakes to help offset the added weight of a light system.
I would still want a normal starter though and have no reliance on the add in system for normal operation.
I would still want a normal starter though and have no reliance on the add in system for normal operation.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 5,482
Likes: 89
From: N/A
On the subject of tactility again, just listen to this video from 2:54 onward:
I can definitely understand why people who hear and feel this sort of solidity would think it's a longer-lasting vehicle than a modern E-Class with its creaky trim and interior. But I would never bet against an old E-Class outlasting a new one.
I can definitely understand why people who hear and feel this sort of solidity would think it's a longer-lasting vehicle than a modern E-Class with its creaky trim and interior. But I would never bet against an old E-Class outlasting a new one.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,461
Likes: 393
From: Las Vegas
My parents are driving a Diamler era Chrysler with 250k+ on it. If THAT thing can make it that far, I expect anything made today to make it.
That doesn't mean without repairs. It just means no rebuilding or replacing the engine or transmission.
That doesn't mean without repairs. It just means no rebuilding or replacing the engine or transmission.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,696
Likes: 290
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 69,222
Likes: 4,220
From: Maryland
BMW also used to have that kind of Teutonic-Tank-solidity, but their products also went noticeably downhill in the solidity department when Chris Bangle came along. He not only introduced the complex/annoying I-Drive and what was (IMO) goofy-looking body styling, but also thinner/lighter construction that was apparently done to cut costs, although the lighter weight might have also helped with CAFE averages,.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 17,316
Likes: 557
From: Knoxville, TN
On the subject of tactility again, just listen to this video from 2:54 onward:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwn_kETLkIc
I can definitely understand why people who hear and feel this sort of solidity would think it's a longer-lasting vehicle than a modern E-Class with its creaky trim and interior. But I would never bet against an old E-Class outlasting a new one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwn_kETLkIc
I can definitely understand why people who hear and feel this sort of solidity would think it's a longer-lasting vehicle than a modern E-Class with its creaky trim and interior. But I would never bet against an old E-Class outlasting a new one.
I would take any E-Class W210 or before with, let's say, 25k miles and in perfect condition and put it up against a brand new one and bet the new one goes to the junk yard first.
The new MBs just don't have those attributes at the time mark you told us to start at. There are a few cheap trim pieces in my SL like the vanity mirror covers but it's the same thing with all the switches and build quality. Opening the door from the inside a small child would have trouble with, it's like opening a safe.