your post is incorrect. This ranking is NOT, I repeat NOT BASED SOELY ON RELIABILITY. The pic below is based SOELY ON RELIABILITY

 

I have a 2013 M3 convertible with 155,000, tracked, and driven hard on several lonely, back roads...and have had only one semi-major issue in my 7 years of ownership (purchased in 2017 with 36,000 miles). I had a coil pack blow when I was out driving, and it had to be towed to a dealer. It's not a normal item that fails, I came to understand. It took a few days for the part to come in, but the total repair was only $430 (parts and labor). I was going to replace it myself, but they went ahead and did an oil change and a tranny flush at a discounted rate while the car was waiting for the part, so I made the most of the car's downtime. Not a single other issue besides regular wear-and-tear maintenance. It still has the original battery. And I have put the top up and down all the time with the engine off using the remote. I'm still in touch with the original owner, as we've become car-enthusiast friends, and he's been through a few BMWs since he sold me his car which was coming off a lease (so I knew he had taken care of the car, plus it was pristine).

I also have a 2021 G82 M4 that has also been tracked, and also driven hard on several lonely back roads, and I'm right at 69,000 miles. Not a single issue, just regular maintenance.

I bought a used 2015 M4 before I got these 2 above in 2016, only had it for 10 months (didn't love the sound or steering), but I never had an issue. I did put 23,000 miles on that M4 because of several trips I took (and obviously I routinely take long trips in ALL my BMWs, evident in their mileage).

I'm in Clublexus because I owned a black cherry 2001 Lexus GS 430 that I sold with 330,000 miles, because it was still in good shape and it was still running. And yes, that engine was rock solid. A very reliable car. And I'm still a Lexus fan, and may eventually return back...but it was simply time for me to transition to German performance vehicles for their higher capabilities and added rawness (compared to Lexus, anyway).

So, from MY experience, yes, Lexus/Toyota still make some of the more reliable cars (I recommend them all the time), but my 3 BMWs (2 I still own, and they are the only cars I own currently so I drive them straight through winter), they've been very reliable. I bought the first 2 a bit worried about reliability because of so many horror stories from others, but those fears never realized.

By the time I bought my 2021 BMW (my first new car ever), my BMW worries had subsided, and I knew BMW's S58 engine was rock solid as it had been used in other BMWs. And BMW's electronics in the last 10 years with the later I-drive systems have been quite dependable. I will likely keep this 2021 BMW for a while...and if I do, I likely won't extend the warranty (and my 2013 M of course is out of warranty). I drive around in both with no worries (with more trips planned in 2024 ).

Thus, all in all, from my experience, BMW reliability has indeed been improving, but you still have to do plenty of research on that particular model before purchasing one.

 

Yes, make sure to use your top moderately to frequently, even if you're not going to drive it. It's way better to use it than not. I'm still just dumbfounded by other R129 owners who let their tops (and cars for that matter) sit for 2 years and then act baffled there's a problem when they go to use it.

And yes, the order of the day based on my experience with an older design.... drive it like normal, dd, to work and back, etc.. I NEVER thought I'd be using my SL as a DD before I owned it.

But yeah, make sure you use your top... sounds like you keep your cars up.

 

My brother has a 10 yer old w diesel. His car hasn’t exactly stranded him where he needed to tow, he has had a lot of little things go wrong. Bushings..ball joints..constant CEL I wouldn’t want to live with this problems

 

i don't agree with any of this. so the camry is not a toyota?
almost all rx sold in NA are made in canada i believe, and are generally considered to be of excellent quality.

about "the germans" - i believe most if not all bmw suvs are made in the U.S. and even exported back to germany. again they're considered to be excellent quality.

completely agree with this though! imagine if a driver is deaf... rattles? what rattles?

i assume start/stop is different because the engine is already warmed up and lubricated? having said that, the santa fe i had had the most amazing starting i've ever experienced. whether cold, warm or start/stop, it started in a fraction of a second. in high outdoor temps i might turn off the start/stop so the a/c would contiunue at full blast at a stop light for example, but other than that, the stop/start didn't bother me or i'd just 'creep' the car forward to restart it (or turn off auto s/s). my lc500 doesn't have start/stop and of course makes a huge 'announcement' with that exhaust when it starts. my ev makes an instrument ding and then i back out in complete silence. it's hilarious the difference.

 

Yet only Hyundai recalls their start stop system




sounds boring

 

This is just part of driving a sophisticated car thats 10 years old, Lexus' of that level are the same way, perhaps not with the CEL but the bushings ball joints, etc

 

we can count on you to post h/k/g recalls every opportunity. so i did a little bit of digging...

full credit to consumer reports for an excellent and thorough recap of the recall and "fire" situation here:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...k-a1169940635/

of note, they say there's been 3100 fires out of about 10 million vehicles going back to 2010 and most seem to affect cars at least 10 years old. the pic they show is of a 2011 optima. the issues appear to be from supplier parts that fail over time. since i only had my 2 ice h/g vehicles for 3 years each, and did the couple of recalls i was notified about, i certainly wasn't concerned. h/k/g was fined 210 million apparently for not responding to issues quickly enough, and a whistleblower was paid 24 million. i'm all for full transparency and prompt corporate responsibility which k/k/g seems to have not done promptly, but i bet they are now. they continue to sell millions of vehicles to satisfied customers.

that means ev's should appeal greatly to toyota customers.

also, millions of ev drivers disagree with you.

 

Wouldn’t have to worry about a recall if Hyundai didn’t include it. no reliability problems if it didn’t exist You didn’t keep your Shante Fe…that’s very telling

 

I believe it was replaced by another H/K product. That's telling too.

 

I recall back what I said .

 

i was never 'worried' about a recall, and as i pointed out, this 'fire' issue is apparently more of an issue for ancient (10+ yr old) cars.

Shante Fe? lol. my h/k/g cars including current ioniq 5 have been 3 year leases. i didn't sell (or turn in) because i was worried about fires, or recalls.

 

Let's get back to Lexus vs. BMW reliabilty, otherwise anything else can go to the General car chat conversation thread.

 

Take a look at some of these:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...2024/overview/
2024 NX Reliability: 49/100
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...2024/overview/
2024 NX Hybrid Reliability: 73/100 (hybrid does better)
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...2024/overview/
2024 X3 Reliability: 73/100

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...2024/overview/
2024 RX Reliability: 64/100
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...2024/overview/
2024 X5 Reliability: 82/100

 

There is no doubt that BMW has made incredible strides in reliability and customer satisfaction. To say they have topped Lexus overall though I think is premature.