They've been behind basically their entire existence. No V12, no TTV8, horribly behind on screens and all that stuff, they were late for many things the Germans brought to the table, it took them until 2008 to debut all wheel drive for their flagship, etc etc.

I was a toddler when Lexus debuted and everyone said they disrupted the luxury division, so I have to believe them, but have they really done a lot since besides build incredibly reliable cars? The reason they are so reliable is because they're so basic, like Toyota except with softer suspension and leather. The LS460 can be a nightmare if you don't maintain it, which isn't the case with prior Lexus models, and is in line with the Germans because they became a lot more complex.

 

Well, they are ahead in hybrids, nobody has the amount of full hybrids. The amount of crossovers and SUVs that they offer is the most out of any brand. Large dealer network in the US and worldwide now is significant. . Manufacturing footprint in the United States is significant as well. I think Lexus sells over a million cars worldwide currently. It’s the V8s and the fact they never offered a V12 to me is what makes me feel they are behind

 

The V12 reason is because the 1UZ-FE was borderline as smooth as the German's V12's, so they figured there was no point in having one in a Lexus. They could have used the Crown's V12 though as an option.

Boy did they drop the ball on the LS500. Perfect chance to develop that TTV8 and knock it out of the park. 11 years with the 4.6 V8, then they decide to go to a V6?

BMW's natural progression after a NA V8 for so many years was to use turbos in it. Same with Mercedes. They even have/had TTV12's but not Lexus.

 

IMO, I take JD Power as a grain of salt. CR maybe more reliable but no vehicle is perfect.

Ask a season mechanic and they will tell you to get a Toyota or Honda in most cases.

 

The UZ is great but a 12 is a 12, nothing else compares. It's the same as trying to compare a V6 to a V8, totally outclasses the lesser engine in all aspects other than MPG I guess but that's irrelevant.

You don't buy a $100-200k car and care about MPG, it simply doesn't matter. Range matters and I still get over 500 miles out of my 12....

Hybrid tech? Okay....again who cares? The hybrid Lexus cars get outperformed by their own gas only cars and crushed by the base engine German offerings, it's not the experience a flagship is supposed to offer. In a flagship you should feel dominant over all else on the road, in a Lexus flagship you always know to defer to the Germans since you can't hang with them.

The final straw for me was the TTV6, that's unacceptable for a "flagship" to have that as the top engine. That's a midrange offering at best

 

All Consumer Reports and J D Power do is report what the owners of vehicles report to them.

 

that's funny. my 2000 gs400 had a touch screen and hard drive based navigation system that worked great. the competing bmw 540i had a cd-based system that was beyond awful. don't think the e-class had anything.

same old arguments. electric cars saying "oh yeah? who cares about cylinders and turbos."

 

Stay slow lol! EVs are never going to be able to keep up with gas cars. They will never be fully owned by the "owners" and they will never have the same culture around them

 

Initial quality has little to do with long term reliability. The article cites tech, so low tech vehicles cannot be dinged for something they don't have.
In a nutshell, without detail, this survey is meaningless.

 

Can't make a blanket statement. Sometimes it does, and sometimes not.

 

I use to fill out the JD Power and CR survey before myself. I found only a handful of people get them. JD pays for people to fill out the survey where CR was voluntary. There are many other survey companies I recall out there trying to collect the data also.

 

I usually get a survey 1 week after I bought a vehicle…. I tend to reply …ask me next year

 

I know the LS 600hL was supposed to give you the V12 feeling and I’m sure it didn’t but I loved that car when I owned it. It seemed so hi-tech back when it came out with the LED lights, etc. Maybe it couldn’t hang with a German V12 but it was cheaper and an overall great car IMO.

 

Good answer.

Makes me think of back when I was single and dating.

Initial quality was there no doubt and she looks good but ask me in a year if I'm still happy or nothing but issues. Lolol

I would have to consider the price bracket too and make sure my expectations were fair for the money spent.

There is a chance my initial quality would be ok with a $30k Honda and not on an $80k luxury car if I felt robbed after buying it.

Just an example.

 

How do they define "dependability" and "reliability"?