Initial Quality Study
Racer
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 52
From: FL
I'm only responding to this continuous need for mostly one member to mention upstarts and how poor they are. I can back up every claim made here but will only post details on one.
Said upstart is also #1 in safety, by far... i mean by far. Objectively. especially compared with all those legacy brands.
Also #1 in sales and #1 in brand loyalty. Also separately from all those categories, #1 in EVs... by far. in every category. While Toyota was somewhere near the bottom in a recent 2023 study on EV progress of ALL of the world's brands.
also said upstart is the most valuable car brand. period.
Not bad for an upstart compared to 100+ year old companies.
According to a recent report by Brand Finance, Tesla has taken the lead in the automotive industry by becoming the world’s most valuable brand, with a staggering brand value of USD66.2 billion, which marks a 44% increase. For the first time, a brand that does not manufacture internal combustion engines has reached the top of the global rankings. Brand Finance conducts an annual evaluation of the biggest brands globally, and this year’s report, the Automotive Industry 2023 ranking, lists the most valuable and robust automobile brands.
Tesla’s brand is now worth over five times more than its pre-pandemic valuation, surpassing Toyota, last year’s leader, whose brand value has declined by 18% to USD52.5 billion, and Mercedes-Benz, the runner-up from last year, whose brand value has fallen by 3% to USD58.8 billion.
Said upstart is also #1 in safety, by far... i mean by far. Objectively. especially compared with all those legacy brands.
Also #1 in sales and #1 in brand loyalty. Also separately from all those categories, #1 in EVs... by far. in every category. While Toyota was somewhere near the bottom in a recent 2023 study on EV progress of ALL of the world's brands.
also said upstart is the most valuable car brand. period.
Not bad for an upstart compared to 100+ year old companies.
According to a recent report by Brand Finance, Tesla has taken the lead in the automotive industry by becoming the world’s most valuable brand, with a staggering brand value of USD66.2 billion, which marks a 44% increase. For the first time, a brand that does not manufacture internal combustion engines has reached the top of the global rankings. Brand Finance conducts an annual evaluation of the biggest brands globally, and this year’s report, the Automotive Industry 2023 ranking, lists the most valuable and robust automobile brands.
Tesla’s brand is now worth over five times more than its pre-pandemic valuation, surpassing Toyota, last year’s leader, whose brand value has declined by 18% to USD52.5 billion, and Mercedes-Benz, the runner-up from last year, whose brand value has fallen by 3% to USD58.8 billion.
Rookie
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 37
Likes: 24
From: Maryland
I'm only responding to this continuous need for mostly one member to mention upstarts and how poor they are. I can back up every claim made here but will only post details on one.
Said upstart is also #1 in safety, by far... i mean by far. Objectively. especially compared with all those legacy brands.
Said upstart is also #1 in safety, by far... i mean by far. Objectively. especially compared with all those legacy brands.
Getting back to the original topic which was manufacturing defects and defects upon car receipt. Tesla is notorious for manufacturing and fit and finish defects. It has been that way for years and their customers in general are OK with that. Anecdotally the people I know who gave up their Teslas always mentioned quality as one of the issues.
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,892
Likes: 14
From: Virginia
Like any ownership survey, lots to be said about buyers expectations and tolerances as well. IIRC, Scion was rated worse than Toyota despite all coming out of priced Japanese production facilities. Was linked more that many Scion owners were first time new car buyers that had extraordinarily high expectations of their first new car and less acceptance of random problems or usage issues even though their partsbin was nearly 100% shared with Toyota.
And as others noted as well, existing (long model runs) tend to perform better than launches.
And as others noted as well, existing (long model runs) tend to perform better than launches.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 111
From: Coarsegold, CA
Initial quality survey is the first 90 days. It really just measures how well it is assembled at the factory (engineering can come into play on the success at assembly). Lexus will take a hit over the dash garnish on the RX on the next survey release. It has nothing to do with later reliability though.
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,354
Likes: 555
From: fl
OP points to Tesla but doesn't choose to capture the part of the graph that indicates why both Tesla and Polestar have the ^ sign next to them. So I'll tell you. "Brand is not rank eligible because it doesn't meet study award criteria." The way data is collected on both of these brands is not consistent with the way it's collected on all other ranked brands.
Here's a quote from the article about the rise in problems per 100 cars (not specific to any brand, just the study in general).
"The continuing decline in quality can be attributed to multiple factors such as greater usage and penetration of technology; continued integration of known problematic audio systems into other new models; poor sounding horns; cupholders that don’t serve their purpose.." It also says "door handles are increasingly problematic."
Horns, cup holders, door handles, and audio systems. Consider me completely disinterested in a study like this.
Here's a quote from the article about the rise in problems per 100 cars (not specific to any brand, just the study in general).
"The continuing decline in quality can be attributed to multiple factors such as greater usage and penetration of technology; continued integration of known problematic audio systems into other new models; poor sounding horns; cupholders that don’t serve their purpose.." It also says "door handles are increasingly problematic."
Horns, cup holders, door handles, and audio systems. Consider me completely disinterested in a study like this.
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,354
Likes: 555
From: fl
Not when fit and finish are on things specifically pointed out by JD Power like horns, cup holder design, and door handles. Don't confuse true "reliability" (what are the odds my car leaves me stranded) with anything contained in this or any similar study.
Advanced
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 605
Likes: 42
From: Switzerland
In general, those abrupt changes can be due to a change in the elements that are mesured. Some builders can target to be better for those tests. We had the case, long in the past, with the TCS reliability rankings. Suddenly, the ranking changed and good, renowned reliable vehicules, where lower placed, and german brands appeared in the top 10. It was simply due to the fact that the TCS stopped to do self study and reported the ADAC rankings. But, in the ADAC ranking, brands having a tow contract with the ADAC are not included as "not functionnal". This was the loophole, that explained this explosion of reliability for german carmakers.
I'm pretty sure that Dodge and friends, simply know exactly how to do it right for this ranking.
Yes, in the broad meaning of things. But the more reliable cars I ever witnessed in my existence, where not perfect. Those where old Mitsubishi Lancers, old Steyr trucks and really old Toyota Land Cruiser or Corollas. The assembly of them was okay... it was definitely not perfect. But what was important was bullet proof.
I'm pretty sure that Dodge and friends, simply know exactly how to do it right for this ranking.
Well, fit and finish during assembly has (something) to do with reliability later on as the miles increase. The better assembly goes the better the vehicle will be.
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Racer
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 916
From: TX
Just noticed the thread got moved to Car Chat.
Pole Position
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 153
From: fl
The 1st 90 days also includes a learning curve. For example, Lexus owners get a new Lexus and the infotainment has been updated. If they have not been made familiar with the changes, it would be problematic-this goes for other brands as well. I prefer to look at the 3 year rating, this shows how well the vehicles have actually held up.
CL Community Team
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,432
Likes: 638
From: IL
In general I agree with you, but Tesla door handles are so notoriously unreliable that there are service technicians that do absolutely nothing but work on door handles. That's not the type of thing I've ever heard of from any other brand. There's not a tech at your local Ford dealer who just replaces trans coolers one after the other, day in and day out.
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,354
Likes: 555
From: fl
In general I agree with you, but Tesla door handles are so notoriously unreliable that there are service technicians that do absolutely nothing but work on door handles. That's not the type of thing I've ever heard of from any other brand. There's not a tech at your local Ford dealer who just replaces trans coolers one after the other, day in and day out.
More manufacturers seem to be using that type of design (G90 for example) found on the S and X. The study doesn't elaborate on door handle issues, and it's certainly not pointing to a particular brand as being the culprit for the increase in cases.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 26,190
Likes: 4,380
From: Alberta
Pole Position
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,154
Likes: 967
From: Toronto, ON
Tesla’s brand is now worth over five times more than its pre-pandemic valuation, surpassing Toyota, last year’s leader, whose brand value has declined by 18% to USD52.5 billion, and Mercedes-Benz, the runner-up from last year, whose brand value has fallen by 3% to USD58.8 billion.
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 1,735
From: NC
Not sure why the entire diatribe was needed. Yes Tesla has gotten rave crash test reviews.
Getting back to the original topic which was manufacturing defects and defects upon car receipt. Tesla is notorious for manufacturing and fit and finish defects. It has been that way for years and their customers in general are OK with that. Anecdotally the people I know who gave up their Teslas always mentioned quality as one of the issues.
Getting back to the original topic which was manufacturing defects and defects upon car receipt. Tesla is notorious for manufacturing and fit and finish defects. It has been that way for years and their customers in general are OK with that. Anecdotally the people I know who gave up their Teslas always mentioned quality as one of the issues.