Still Bullish on Hybrids, Will Toyota Leapfrog EV Tech with Solid State?
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 553
From: Ca
Can you prove that? Some sources please. "I think" doesn't cut it. And to your second statement....you seem to be repeating this over and over without any citations or references. If they were so efficient, they wouldn't be #51 when it comes to market Cap while Tesla is #8 (Toyota $192.B while Tesla is $612B market Cap)
Market capitalization is only stock market value of shares.
Pole Position
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,082
Likes: 633
From: CA
Right now, the big boys EV business, all of them, are burning cash. Ford lost $3B; legacy car manufacturers are propping up their EV business with ICE sales. Wonder why most do not break out EV financials? Got something to hide?
We all know Tesla lowered prices across the board. Why? Partially to increase sales, partially to squeeze the competition.
The result? In Q1 Tesla took significant market share from ICE and EV. Tesla sold more cars in the US than BMW and MBZ combined. More than VW. Almost every company declined Q4 to Q1, which is typical in the car business; Tesla had another record quarter.
Shanghai annual run rate is 1M cars, Fremont 500K, Berlin 250K and ramping, Austin 200K and ramping.
Monterrey breaking ground; the Model 2 for the world market will be a heavy blow to every legacy car company.
Still waiting...
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 26,049
Likes: 4,327
From: Alberta
Toyota solvency score: 43
https://www.alphaspread.com/security/nyse/tm/solvency
Tesla solvency score: 89
https://www.alphaspread.com/security.../tsla/solvency
Look at the Altman-Z scores
Toyota has said repeatedly they will sell 3 million EVs by 2030 so they expect the market will still be buying 70% ICE by then. Good luck Toyota.
https://www.alphaspread.com/security/nyse/tm/solvency
Tesla solvency score: 89
https://www.alphaspread.com/security.../tsla/solvency
Look at the Altman-Z scores
Toyota has said repeatedly they will sell 3 million EVs by 2030 so they expect the market will still be buying 70% ICE by then. Good luck Toyota.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,736
Likes: 3,771
From: California
Market cap is how you determine the value of a publicly traded company. Now back to my last question, where is the proof of Toyota's upcoming battery pipeline? Give me something on that because from all reports, Toyota can't get there hands on enough batteries
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,736
Likes: 3,771
From: California
I've always said that the Model 3 and Y are not luxury brands, but BMW and Mercedes buyers are flocking to Model Y. Although that may change if BMW and Mercedes can ramp up production of the i4, iX and EQS and somehow convince dealers not to mark them up so much
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,736
Likes: 3,771
From: California
I'm going to be super honest blunt with you. There are many "luxury" buyers where the Y or even the X won't cut it for them. One of my friends is one of them, he tested the Y and both him and his wife gave it a hard No. He test drove the i4 and ordered it that same day. I've met several EQS buyers that would not have gone EV had Mercedes not released it. I met a guy on Friday who was charging his i4, he also owns a Y and loves it, but bought the i4 due to its better amenities geared for comfort.
Luxury is pretty specific in the heads of a lot of buyers
Luxury is pretty specific in the heads of a lot of buyers
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,991
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From: San Diego, CA
I don't think you can apply that definition in that way any more. It's no longer black and white. What were once predominantly luxury brands aggressively compete in all segments now, and you can bet your bottom dollar that Mercedes, BMW and others absolutely view Tesla as competitors. To one extent or another, the 3/Y/S/X are consistently cross-shopped and compete with BMW 3/4/5/7 Series, Mercedes C/E/S Class and comparable models from Lexus, Audi and others. Buyers see them all as premium brands but recognize that some of these brands have specific models that compete in the luxury segment.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 26,049
Likes: 4,327
From: Alberta
Agreed. I find that older drivers view luxury as very important and as you say specific, the pillowed cushion crowd. They tend to think a luxury look means comfort even if it doesn't. More buttons and ***** means expensive, that's why we see EVs with super fancy shifters even though the mechanism is completely unnecessary.
I'll get flack for this but the Model S with on screen shifter makes total sense.
I'll get flack for this but the Model S with on screen shifter makes total sense.
someone i know who's VERY well off, traded in his porsche panamera for a toyota prius a few years ago because he wanted to be seen as 'earth-conscious'. doesn't mean those two cars compete
he lasted about 6 months before conceding how awful the prius was compared to his prior bmw's, porsche's, etc.
now he drives a jeep wrangler phev by the way. fits the trendy look, he doesn't care about it getting dinged, his dog can ride in it easily, plus ev cred with the plugin part.
definitely NOT a luxury vehicle though.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,736
Likes: 3,771
From: California
sure because many affluent and image-conscious buyers want the shiny new thing, plus FOMO.
someone i know who's VERY well off, traded in his porsche panamera for a toyota prius a few years ago because he wanted to be seen as 'earth-conscious'. doesn't mean those two cars compete
he lasted about 6 months before conceding how awful the prius was compared to his prior bmw's, porsche's, etc.
someone i know who's VERY well off, traded in his porsche panamera for a toyota prius a few years ago because he wanted to be seen as 'earth-conscious'. doesn't mean those two cars compete
he lasted about 6 months before conceding how awful the prius was compared to his prior bmw's, porsche's, etc.
i've gone luxury sedan, suv, suv, luxury sedan, camry (briefly, lol), lc500 + suv.
Pole Position
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,082
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From: CA
The lux division is scared xxxless of Tesla because Tesla is eating their lunch. That's the numbers.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 26,049
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From: Alberta
Wright’s Law Spells Doom For Legacy Auto Around The World
How Toyota is not taking this deadly serious is beyond me. This is most concerning for them
Electric vehicle prices vs. ICE are dropping much faster than most people realize, ICE cars are steadily going up in price. Toyota is increasing complexity/cost of their fleet by going turbo and hybrid. They are heading straight into a perfect storm and doing little to nothing about it.
How Toyota is not taking this deadly serious is beyond me. This is most concerning for them
So, what does this mean for the auto industry? It means that electric car prices will continue to drop dramatically over the next 4 doublings in volume, which should be by 2028 to 2030. If you do the math (.85 times .85 times .85 times .85), that predicts a 48% reduction in the price of electric cars. Possibly because of stricter emissions and safety regulations, the price of cars has been going up 4.12% a year over the last 5 years in the US. With my above prediction of about 8% a year reduction in electric car costs and assuming the 4% increase in (mostly gas) car costs continues, that predicts electric vehicles get 12% more price competitive every year!