Mdme

Yeah. No choice when the water is rising around you....true story though. Wouldn't know it if it didn't happen to me.

Mdme

1. It translates to impressive mid range passing power.
2. Battery already made so that part of the carbon foot print will remain whether I buy a 350 or 450h. Using a 450h instead of the 350 will reduce my carbon footprint.
3. Yikes!

coolsaber

3) Didnt know the 350 had the same # of batteries in the trunk as the 450. LOL

Mdme

I'm sure you're just being funny.....

MercuryISF

iTrader: (3)

I have being going back and forth between the 350/450 fsport. After building both there's a 6k difference. It will take a rather long time to recoup the costs. Not to mention the 450 takes premium. One other note you lose the dual exhaust look. The 450 has no exhaust outlets. It simply is a muffler tip pointing to the ground. For those reasons I will be getting the 350. The 450 seemed like it had more torque which I liked but not for 6k and 6 more mpgs.

TechNut

I think perhaps you have to own a hybrid to completely appreciate the advantages. Looking at your signature block shows you tend to favor the higher performance or sportier handling automobiles so you may not appreciate the differences. My hybrid is a different model, so I can't directly debate your points, but some of them would be disappointing if accurate. For example, "droning and rubbery power delivery." If that is true, thank goodness Lexus didn't pass that trait over to the ES hybrid (at least in my opinion and with my driving style). Likewise with the "annoying high pitched hybrid sounds...and fan sound to cool down the batteries". Thankfully, our ES doesn't seem to exhibit those issues.

However, I can say that our RX 350 shift points are way more obvious/pronounced than the ES when it shifts between gas and electric. Again, different vehicles so it may not be a fair comparison, but I would think there would be similarities with the same manufacturer.

We love how quiet and smooth our hybrid ES is and would never go back to a gas-only model as our daily driver. I suspect we would feel the same way if we bought an RX 450. My wife and I carpool in the ES (formerly a Prius) and just don't drive the RX a great deal, so we didn't want to spend the extra money or we would have absolutely purchased the RX 450.

dchar

You are right in that I like more performance in my cars, but I'm (as well as OP) still curious about why people would get the RX450h over RX350 when it cost significantly more but the return on efficiency or performance isn't there. I'm not saying all hybrids are bad; getting the ES300h over the ES350 makes sense since it is significantly more efficient and the price difference is only about $2K. Since my experience was with a 2015 RX450h loaner, these noisy problems I stated may be due to an older design and may have been addressed when they introduced the ES; the RX450h has the batteries under the back seats, so the vent for it is right in the footwell area and the batteries may need additional cooling due to the weight of the RX. The RX450h also has a V6 rather than an inline-4 like in the ES300h. I haven't driven an ES300h yet, but the droning from the CVT and awkward power delivery is apparent during hard accelerations or when trying to pass. Yes, the CVT is more for efficiency, but the observations I have stated (and car reviewers) about CVTs are the reasons why more sports cars and expensive luxury cars aren't using it.

AL13NV8D3R

Plenty of performance cars use hybrid power. The Porsche 918 SPYDER, Ferrari LaFerrari and BMW i8 comes to mine and people dont complain about those cars because it uses a hydrid drive train. I think its the future that auto makers will have to transition to if they want to keep up with CAFE standards. I do agree that the 450h transition between electric and gas could be smoother but like all technology it takes time to refine a technology.

coolsaber

Comparison of the year award goes to...lol

kitlz

Well, no 350 F-Sports in the area until January. I went to another dealer today who unfortunately sold the one they had. I'd like to test the ride and seats beforehand. Interesting, they said I could go ahead and order the 450h F-Sport. If I don't like it when it arrives, they would refund my deposit and sell it. No thanks, I'll wait a few weeks. And three months to special order. Not sure why Lexus decided to go this route to introduce the 450h F-Sport to the states

dchar, I suggested the other thread because you're looking at the 450h from primarily an economic standpoint and it supports some of your comments. But it's not about prestige or breaking even. And mcfancy asked why we went hybrid, not necessarily for a comparison. That's why driving both is a good idea, to appreciate the differences. To add to Doug's comments, going hybrid is fun. Taking the longer route home, trying to keep it 'in the blue,' going stealth at times, those are some comments 3rd gen 450h owners have made. Simply put, it changes the way you drive.

ericsan13

Hybrid fans will argue it's not a CVT - it's a PSD and not your typical droning conical CVT. There is a reason the prius destroyed all other CVT based hybrids.

I posted this in another thread but here's the gist of it:

Benefits of hybrids
-silent EV mode
-no shifting
-instant torque
-98% recyclable (400h)
-longer range
-less maintenance (brakes)
-higher MPG
-portable generator

SoKali-RX

iTrader: (4)

Test drove the 450H and I have to say that baby is smooth as butter and much quieter than the non-hybrids. In my 350 FSport, if I am not in SportS or Sport+ mode, there is a slight hesitation from the engine and transmission. This is obviously not an issue in the Hybrid version. The only knock on the hybrid version is handling due to the extra weight and no exhaust. It all comes down to personal preference, each car has their pros and cons.

BTW, Lexus of Thousand Oaks has a 450H FSport Ultra White/Rioja Red coming in, in December. I couldn't wait that long so I passed it up. If someone lives close and wants to get one, contact Patrick Wei. He will take care of you!