ericsan13

Hi All,

It's about time we kick off this sub-forum with some discussion. We all know the advantages of a hybrid, but with gas prices expected to stay low for the foreseeable future, will the premium of hybrids still be worth it? Will Lexus adjust the price of the 4GR RX450h based off market conditions?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/au...s-by.html?_r=0

The 450h no longer has a HP advantage over the 350 in 2016. This means that buying hybrid will mean buying the slower SUV?

-Eric

BertL

For us in Southern California, premium is today well over $4.20 per gallon here in San Diego unlike the national average, and I'm watching daily when to do my next fill-up. The news I saw earlier this evening stated we would soon be approaching close to $2 more than the national average per gallon, and the Feds are considering if stockpiles need to be created more exclusive to us to even prices out in this part of the nation with ongoing situations like this. Our rates down here seem to remain the highest in the nation for various reasons that can be debated forever -- even more in recent years than isolated Hawaii that I lived in/on for many years and maintains almost their own independent infrastucture when it comes to fuel and power... Europe of course has even higher rates of fuel than most enjoy here in the U.S.

I do believe for some of us, despite the specs once all of them are published and understood on the 2016 RXh, and as we've discussed in the 2nd and 3rd RX forums, there will remain reasons some of us prefer to purchase hybrids despite the more immediate mathematical return calculations most go through these days -- no different than when I chose to purchase the first Lexus hybrid back in 2005, and I knew it wouldn't likely pay for itself given my driving style and the spreadsheet I made researching options to replace my RX300 back then.

ericsan13

The 450h may make sense with Californians as far as cost recovery goes, however will Lexus price based on California or the rest of the nation? We were in Washington are still getting our gas at $2.90, even after prices went up.

I started a list of benefits and here's what I've gathered so far in no particular order:

-hybrids are 25% to 42% more reliable than gas-counterparts
-higher resale value offsets higher initial price
-silent EV mode at low speeds
-no shifting and no CVT drone
-instant and smooth torque
-longer range, less trips to the gas station
-radio/electronics don't restart when engine starts
-no issues with excessive noise/vibration or hesitation problems of the non-hybrid
-Brakes: 2.5x longer life, way less brake dust!
-higher MPG feels psychologically better
-start/stop is less wasteful in stop-and-go traffic
-its the highest RX you can get
-stronger electric powered A/C
-no alternator
-no starter = less reliance on 12V battery
-acts as a portable generator
-98% recyclable (400h)
-lower emissions/saving the planet...
-no smog checks for some states (e.g. CA, WA, MI, refer to your state laws)

BertL

Add to your benefits list for some States (at least those of us in CA):

- No Smog Checks

Cruiter

I'll be getting another (h) after it's intro (list price) dies down and deals start. It's short sighted to consider the hybrid strictly for fuel economy, it's the next step up in the RX model chain with more trim, additional equipment such as VDIM, and yes the hybrid power train. Having had experience with the CVT tranny, it's another selling feature for me as well. I am hoping they've re-mapped the engine to accept regular gas though.

kitlz

There's still savings to be had when gas prices fall. I'm paying on average $12 less each fill-up from a few months ago. It's even higher given the warmer weather. Like fellow hybrid owners Bert and Jim said, mileage isn't the only consideration. And while HP is going to be the same with the 4RX, those little extras already documented in the forums make it worth it IMO. I expect the same with the next gen.

NateJG

I just took my 13h on a trip thru the 318 curves in the 11-mile stretch of road called The Tail of the Dragon (US Highway 129). In fact, tonight I sat down to write an in-depth and hopefully interesting article about my trip; only after 1.5 hours midway into it, I tried to save it along the way - and my darned computer crashed. I took a long walk to pout.

Well, the important part is that my 5,000 pound behemoth, full of a weekend's luggage and two coolers, wound around the famous roadway with agility, power, control, and instilled confidence that I had prayed for.

My first, and only, trip around that roadway, passed by speeding bikers and overly aggressive sports cars, was hugely entertaining.

I spent most of my time in second or third gear (well, sort of -- it's the hybrid, remember); and the engine braking thru both front and rear motors allowed me to nearly ignore my brake on all but the tightest of turns -- using my throttle for both acceleration and braking.

Accelerating thru turns was nearly as much fun as in the Z4 that I had thought of taking on that trip; and the VDIM managed wheel spin to mere squeaks.

The turns came so quickly, and I had to watch and listen for oncoming cars - so I spent a lot of time looking Under the rearview mirror, as the turns were up and down as well as left and right.

The power (in Sport Mode) was instantaneous, with the car always in the right gear (well, Duhh); and the roar of the engine while accelerating was really captured well in the dash-mounted iPhone that I used to record the run.

For a big car - scratch that qualification - this car drove like a dream - inspiring confidence that I had not expected. It did not complain. I loved the control.

I had started my lengthy article to be posted in the 3rd gen thread titled something like Boring RX - or something to that effect.

I bought the hybrid for reasons other than payback; and, unless it takes an expensive dump - I'm really impressed with it's Superman transformation from the comfortable Clark Kent that it is on a daily basis.

I'm actually glad I didn't take the Z4 as planned - as it gave me a real opportunity to appreciate just how great the RXh really is - at any cost.

BertL

Nice write-up NateJG. Appreciate your POV and taking the time to post it for us here.

adpock

Really interesting thread. Here's my front page take on it...
https://www.clublexus.com/articles/i...ould-lexus-do/

LovMRX450

Nice write up by Nate. There are many reasons that we purchased our RX450H beside MPG benefits. After we experience driving hybrid vehicle, we decided to purchased es300h recently. We love both hybrid models.

rayaans

I've had mine for 3 years and here are my reasons for buying a hybrid:

1 - it's worth nothing that the US of A is not the only country in the world. Road/company car tax rates in Europe are based on CO2 emissions in which the hybrid excels compared to an equivalent petrol only model

2 - Mid range acceleration is great! The RX350 doesn't come close in terms of acceleration between 30-100mph. I've timed the RXh doing 6.5-6.8s times using the unofficial hybrid launch technique

3 - CVT. It's super smooth, no jerks, no waiting for the gears to change, the car just goes, especially in Sport Mode.

4 - Fuel price here in the UK is currently £1.16 per liter. That's double what you guys pay. My RXh is doing 30-35mpg. Compared to my previous RX that's 10-15 mpg more and I'm usually in Sport Mode. This gives me more power and fuel cost savings at the same time

5 - Refinement. It's lovely driving a car which becomes completely silent in town. Getting into a petrol only vehicle makes it feel like I've gone back in time.

6 - They're cool! From the comments I've received from my friends, children and my children's friends, hybrids are rather cool in Europe apparently. My kids friend, massive car fan and he was like "those Lexus hybrids are so cool". Instand Kudos lol

theory816

The real question is, what do they do with they huge gold lexus badge on the wall once the showroom is over?????? I want it!

GSCT

IMO Lexus' strategy of positioning the hybrid as the "top of the line" loaded with additional features may be self defeating. I would prefer being able to option a hybrid engine at a lower price point in the model lines they are being offered.

MichaelPea

Like a number of the other commenters, I bought a RX hybrid in 2011 for a variety of reasons not necessarily related to fuel mileage but that's a bonus. Recently, me and my wife visited the Lexus dealership where we have bought 3 other Lexus vehicles to look at/drive the new NX hybrid. Guess that's not gonna happen since they don't have a single one. And they don't see one coming in their pipeline anytime soon. What's more, the other dealer in town also has ..... you guessed it.....none!

Seriously, why market and build hype for a car that you don't have real or serious intentions of building in sufficient quantities to even support test drives? This game that Lexus seems to want to play to support their pricing model combined with the decontenting of new models (compared to previous builds of the same model) and the lack of follow up models (noticed the GS350 Luxury package is like hen's teeth?) doesn't really inspire much confidence in the brand.

It's been nice Lexus but you're behaving like General Motors.

ericsan13

love it! thanks for including me in the article!