Larger Mobil-1 filter for Lexus Engines?
05-04-09, 05:14 PM
#16
i use a mobile 1 filter on my IS that was supposed to be for a mustang but its bigger than the stock one and i was told that it would filter better etc. I bought and installed it and it works just fine...
05-05-09, 01:33 AM
#17
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lexmex, just my preference, i never use a wrench on a oil filter. always tighten with hand and take off with hand. i have done this for 30 years and never had a leak and never cussed when trying to take one off.....that is if i can get my hand on it real good. i have yet to change the lexus yet. i still have one freebee oil change from he dealer. it looks like it might be easy enough to slip a 1' socket on it to bump it loose.
06-15-09, 06:05 AM
#19
Super Moderator
lexmex, just my preference, i never use a wrench on a oil filter. always tighten with hand and take off with hand. i have done this for 30 years and never had a leak and never cussed when trying to take one off.....that is if i can get my hand on it real good. i have yet to change the lexus yet. i still have one freebee oil change from he dealer. it looks like it might be easy enough to slip a 1' socket on it to bump it loose.
07-01-09, 07:22 AM
#20
This may not sit too well with those who are loyal to Mobil 1 filters, but here goes anyway....
Have any of you guys ever ran your pinky finger down inside and around a Mobil 1 filter and then looked at what you pull out of there -- maybe look at it with a magnifying glass? I've done this on several of them and it would appear the metal apparently isn't really cleaned after the metal-working process prior to assembly/manufacture of the filter as a complete unit. I found the typical dirty-looking residue common to metal-working processes, but even more alarming was that there were anywhere from a couple to MANY small metal particles which were apparently left over from the thread cutting and manufacturing process.
Back in ~1997 I wrote up a detailed summary (on the 300ZX board) of how I found a LOT of metal particles in a couple of Mobil 1 filters that I bought for my 300ZXTT, I contacted Mobil 1 about this and they referred me to Champion Labs, the actual manufacturer of the filter. The Champion QC Manager wrote me a letter stating that they'd checked their inventory and all their filters were in spec. For my troubles they sent me two filters. I checked those and found the same particles. I then conducted a gravimetric analysis where you flush the subject item (the inside of the filter, in this case) with solvent, filter that solvent to capture any particles, then weigh them. I was shocked at what came out of those filters. There was a small pile of shiny metal particles (total about the size of ~20 flecks of fine grind black pepper) that responded to a magnet (when the magnet was moved around under the bottom of the beaker), and a large amount of what looked like fine sand.
Of course I never used a Mobil 1 filter again, but a few weeks ago Advance Auto had a special combo deal on Mobil 1 oil and a Mobil 1 filter. The deal made the oil a bargain, even if you didn't use the filter, so I thought I'd give them another try. After all it'd been about 12 years so maybe they had fixed the earlier issues (at least it was an issue to me). I also bought a Purolator filter while I was there just in case.
Well, I brought the filter home and did only the finger test (no solvent flush, gravimetric analysis, etc.). I only found one or two small metal particles among the dirty film that came out on my finger (nowhere nearly as bad as 12 years ago), but I still couldn't bring myself to use the filter. Perhaps all this stuff will get trapped in the filter and perhaps the manufacturing process keeps the "clean" side of the filter clean so that any particles don't go directly into the engine's oil passageways, but I just couldn't feel comfortable using those filters.
Anyway, that's my experience with Mobil 1 filters.
Have any of you guys ever ran your pinky finger down inside and around a Mobil 1 filter and then looked at what you pull out of there -- maybe look at it with a magnifying glass? I've done this on several of them and it would appear the metal apparently isn't really cleaned after the metal-working process prior to assembly/manufacture of the filter as a complete unit. I found the typical dirty-looking residue common to metal-working processes, but even more alarming was that there were anywhere from a couple to MANY small metal particles which were apparently left over from the thread cutting and manufacturing process.
Back in ~1997 I wrote up a detailed summary (on the 300ZX board) of how I found a LOT of metal particles in a couple of Mobil 1 filters that I bought for my 300ZXTT, I contacted Mobil 1 about this and they referred me to Champion Labs, the actual manufacturer of the filter. The Champion QC Manager wrote me a letter stating that they'd checked their inventory and all their filters were in spec. For my troubles they sent me two filters. I checked those and found the same particles. I then conducted a gravimetric analysis where you flush the subject item (the inside of the filter, in this case) with solvent, filter that solvent to capture any particles, then weigh them. I was shocked at what came out of those filters. There was a small pile of shiny metal particles (total about the size of ~20 flecks of fine grind black pepper) that responded to a magnet (when the magnet was moved around under the bottom of the beaker), and a large amount of what looked like fine sand.
Of course I never used a Mobil 1 filter again, but a few weeks ago Advance Auto had a special combo deal on Mobil 1 oil and a Mobil 1 filter. The deal made the oil a bargain, even if you didn't use the filter, so I thought I'd give them another try. After all it'd been about 12 years so maybe they had fixed the earlier issues (at least it was an issue to me). I also bought a Purolator filter while I was there just in case.
Well, I brought the filter home and did only the finger test (no solvent flush, gravimetric analysis, etc.). I only found one or two small metal particles among the dirty film that came out on my finger (nowhere nearly as bad as 12 years ago), but I still couldn't bring myself to use the filter. Perhaps all this stuff will get trapped in the filter and perhaps the manufacturing process keeps the "clean" side of the filter clean so that any particles don't go directly into the engine's oil passageways, but I just couldn't feel comfortable using those filters. Anyway, that's my experience with Mobil 1 filters.
07-01-09, 02:52 PM
#21
07-01-09, 05:51 PM
#23
Thanks! But I'm the first to admit that I've been blessed -- I'm thankful that I can spare the 15 minutes to walk the 60 feet from my office to the lab and conduct the procedure to find out how many large metal particles are in my expensive new oil filter. 
Last edited by I6turbo; 07-01-09 at 05:58 PM.
04-21-12, 01:12 PM
#24
A few years old, but if you are still on the forum, have you checked many other filters doing the gravimetric analysis? Being Champion labs makes a majority of the filters in the US, possibly the world, I have to wonder if this is a common problem across all filters?
Any filters NOT made by Champion?
Any filters NOT made by Champion?
This may not sit too well with those who are loyal to Mobil 1 filters, but here goes anyway....
Have any of you guys ever ran your pinky finger down inside and around a Mobil 1 filter and then looked at what you pull out of there -- maybe look at it with a magnifying glass? I've done this on several of them and it would appear the metal apparently isn't really cleaned after the metal-working process prior to assembly/manufacture of the filter as a complete unit. I found the typical dirty-looking residue common to metal-working processes, but even more alarming was that there were anywhere from a couple to MANY small metal particles which were apparently left over from the thread cutting and manufacturing process.
Back in ~1997 I wrote up a detailed summary (on the 300ZX board) of how I found a LOT of metal particles in a couple of Mobil 1 filters that I bought for my 300ZXTT, I contacted Mobil 1 about this and they referred me to Champion Labs, the actual manufacturer of the filter. The Champion QC Manager wrote me a letter stating that they'd checked their inventory and all their filters were in spec. For my troubles they sent me two filters. I checked those and found the same particles. I then conducted a gravimetric analysis where you flush the subject item (the inside of the filter, in this case) with solvent, filter that solvent to capture any particles, then weigh them. I was shocked at what came out of those filters. There was a small pile of shiny metal particles (total about the size of ~20 flecks of fine grind black pepper) that responded to a magnet (when the magnet was moved around under the bottom of the beaker), and a large amount of what looked like fine sand.
Of course I never used a Mobil 1 filter again, but a few weeks ago Advance Auto had a special combo deal on Mobil 1 oil and a Mobil 1 filter. The deal made the oil a bargain, even if you didn't use the filter, so I thought I'd give them another try. After all it'd been about 12 years so maybe they had fixed the earlier issues (at least it was an issue to me). I also bought a Purolator filter while I was there just in case. Well, I brought the filter home and did only the finger test (no solvent flush, gravimetric analysis, etc.). I only found one or two small metal particles among the dirty film that came out on my finger (nowhere nearly as bad as 12 years ago), but I still couldn't bring myself to use the filter. Perhaps all this stuff will get trapped in the filter and perhaps the manufacturing process keeps the "clean" side of the filter clean so that any particles don't go directly into the engine's oil passageways, but I just couldn't feel comfortable using those filters.
Anyway, that's my experience with Mobil 1 filters.
Have any of you guys ever ran your pinky finger down inside and around a Mobil 1 filter and then looked at what you pull out of there -- maybe look at it with a magnifying glass? I've done this on several of them and it would appear the metal apparently isn't really cleaned after the metal-working process prior to assembly/manufacture of the filter as a complete unit. I found the typical dirty-looking residue common to metal-working processes, but even more alarming was that there were anywhere from a couple to MANY small metal particles which were apparently left over from the thread cutting and manufacturing process.
Back in ~1997 I wrote up a detailed summary (on the 300ZX board) of how I found a LOT of metal particles in a couple of Mobil 1 filters that I bought for my 300ZXTT, I contacted Mobil 1 about this and they referred me to Champion Labs, the actual manufacturer of the filter. The Champion QC Manager wrote me a letter stating that they'd checked their inventory and all their filters were in spec. For my troubles they sent me two filters. I checked those and found the same particles. I then conducted a gravimetric analysis where you flush the subject item (the inside of the filter, in this case) with solvent, filter that solvent to capture any particles, then weigh them. I was shocked at what came out of those filters. There was a small pile of shiny metal particles (total about the size of ~20 flecks of fine grind black pepper) that responded to a magnet (when the magnet was moved around under the bottom of the beaker), and a large amount of what looked like fine sand.
Of course I never used a Mobil 1 filter again, but a few weeks ago Advance Auto had a special combo deal on Mobil 1 oil and a Mobil 1 filter. The deal made the oil a bargain, even if you didn't use the filter, so I thought I'd give them another try. After all it'd been about 12 years so maybe they had fixed the earlier issues (at least it was an issue to me). I also bought a Purolator filter while I was there just in case.
Well, I brought the filter home and did only the finger test (no solvent flush, gravimetric analysis, etc.). I only found one or two small metal particles among the dirty film that came out on my finger (nowhere nearly as bad as 12 years ago), but I still couldn't bring myself to use the filter. Perhaps all this stuff will get trapped in the filter and perhaps the manufacturing process keeps the "clean" side of the filter clean so that any particles don't go directly into the engine's oil passageways, but I just couldn't feel comfortable using those filters. Anyway, that's my experience with Mobil 1 filters.
04-21-12, 09:20 PM
#25
A few years old, but if you are still on the forum, have you checked many other filters doing the gravimetric analysis? Being Champion labs makes a majority of the filters in the US, possibly the world, I have to wonder if this is a common problem across all filters?
Any filters NOT made by Champion?
Any filters NOT made by Champion?
05-03-12, 09:28 AM
#26
I have my concerns of any filter made by Champion Labs, even this happening 1 time out of every million is very bad. But this guy got more than one, and even some cherry picked filters from Champion Labs had the problem. So the problem is a gross problem in quality. I am hesitant to touch anything by Champion labs.
My 301 Turbo V8 Trans AM when I tore it down after I melted a piston had some pretty healthy grooves in the mains and rod bearings (rod/crank seemed ok), I then used most any filter I got a good deal on (AC Delco primarily, but I know Frams were on there too). The engine had 3000 mile oil/filter changes (spec, no matter the conditions, and harsh conditions was spec'd to be 1500 miles).
Makes one wonder if the grooves were caused by loose manufacturing debris. Is it worth the risk? I am really thinking a System 1 filter isn't a bad idea....
My 301 Turbo V8 Trans AM when I tore it down after I melted a piston had some pretty healthy grooves in the mains and rod bearings (rod/crank seemed ok), I then used most any filter I got a good deal on (AC Delco primarily, but I know Frams were on there too). The engine had 3000 mile oil/filter changes (spec, no matter the conditions, and harsh conditions was spec'd to be 1500 miles).
Makes one wonder if the grooves were caused by loose manufacturing debris. Is it worth the risk? I am really thinking a System 1 filter isn't a bad idea....
05-03-12, 09:49 AM
#27
I have my concerns of any filter made by Champion Labs, even this happening 1 time out of every million is very bad. But this guy got more than one, and even some cherry picked filters from Champion Labs had the problem. So the problem is a gross problem in quality. I am hesitant to touch anything by Champion labs.
My 301 Turbo V8 Trans AM when I tore it down after I melted a piston had some pretty healthy grooves in the mains and rod bearings (rod/crank seemed ok), I then used most any filter I got a good deal on (AC Delco primarily, but I know Frams were on there too). The engine had 3000 mile oil/filter changes (spec, no matter the conditions, and harsh conditions was spec'd to be 1500 miles).
Makes one wonder if the grooves were caused by loose manufacturing debris. Is it worth the risk? I am really thinking a System 1 filter isn't a bad idea....
My 301 Turbo V8 Trans AM when I tore it down after I melted a piston had some pretty healthy grooves in the mains and rod bearings (rod/crank seemed ok), I then used most any filter I got a good deal on (AC Delco primarily, but I know Frams were on there too). The engine had 3000 mile oil/filter changes (spec, no matter the conditions, and harsh conditions was spec'd to be 1500 miles).
Makes one wonder if the grooves were caused by loose manufacturing debris. Is it worth the risk? I am really thinking a System 1 filter isn't a bad idea....
Not saying you do, but you have no idea how many people I witness get in their cars, start them and immediately rev them, like their foot was on the pedal the whole time, I try to educate the ones I can, but that type of abuse is typically what causes grooves in bearings...
I just tore down a 2jz I bought from a junkyard - claimed 150k miles, internally, it was clear the driver of that car did not use synthetic oil - lots of buildup inside the oil pump and upper oil pan. I would have a hard time believing they used a quality filter... The bearings were all still within spec, in fact, not even close to being out of spec, most were .003, spec is .0025... Had I not been interested in rebuilding it for my turbo project, I could have put that shortblock straight into service... No grooves or anything in any of the bearing surfaces...
Manufacturing tolerances also play a role in longevity, obviously... I was able to rehone that same block without boring it for the new piston installation...
05-03-12, 10:02 AM
#28
I guess I have to understand a good reason how the debris (of that size) gets in the bearing passages.
Either it got past the filter (and appropriately mashed by the oil pump spur gears)
Was created after the filter
I don't see how just junk in the oil pan is going to get picked up by the pickup and filtered (unless bypass is active). Agreed, cold start revving engine is deadly, the internal filter bypass on this engine (Pontiac V8, it doesn't need a filter bypass, will trigger around 4 psi filter restriction.
I can see that when cold (and oil is very thick) and the filter bypass is bypassing and you rev it, crap is going everywhere. Makes one wonder how often the filter bypass is bypassing the filter anyway?
I was particularly careful to never let the car rev cold (although factory initial cold start did rev to 3000 FACTORY!!!, which I fixed). Do I let it sit long? Never, but I don't rev it ever either. I am very very careful to not even let the car run after I change the oil and turn it at cranking speeds till the oil pressure is up. Then I allow the engine to start.
Either it got past the filter (and appropriately mashed by the oil pump spur gears)
Was created after the filter
I don't see how just junk in the oil pan is going to get picked up by the pickup and filtered (unless bypass is active). Agreed, cold start revving engine is deadly, the internal filter bypass on this engine (Pontiac V8, it doesn't need a filter bypass, will trigger around 4 psi filter restriction.
I can see that when cold (and oil is very thick) and the filter bypass is bypassing and you rev it, crap is going everywhere. Makes one wonder how often the filter bypass is bypassing the filter anyway?
I was particularly careful to never let the car rev cold (although factory initial cold start did rev to 3000 FACTORY!!!, which I fixed). Do I let it sit long? Never, but I don't rev it ever either. I am very very careful to not even let the car run after I change the oil and turn it at cranking speeds till the oil pressure is up. Then I allow the engine to start.
05-05-12, 11:01 AM
#29
For the sake of looking, I was at Farm and Fleet today and picked up a Mobil 1 filter (random, forget the #) and stuck my finger inside looking for metal, and I did get a flake I could see on my finger.
This is on the INSIDE, post filter element. Meaning it has to make a full trip around the entire lubrication system before it can get trapped in the filter.
I am really starting to wonder if the System 1 filter is the way to go. You are in full control of the cleanliness of it....
This is on the INSIDE, post filter element. Meaning it has to make a full trip around the entire lubrication system before it can get trapped in the filter.
I am really starting to wonder if the System 1 filter is the way to go. You are in full control of the cleanliness of it....
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