Larger Mobil-1 filter for Lexus Engines?
07-09-04, 05:54 PM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
Larger Mobil-1 filter for Lexus Engines?
Some time ago, a user on another forum suggested that a Mobil 1 M1-209 filter would work as an oversize filter instead of the considerably smaller Mobil 1 M1-102. It took me awhile to convince myself that he is right, but I think I am finally convinced.
First of all, on the Wix website, I cross-referenced both of the above filters to the equivalent Wix models. M1-102 is a Wix 51348; M1-209 is a Wix 51516. Specs from this website (http://www.wixfilters.com) are identical except for length:
Thread size: 3/4-16
By-Pass valve setting - 8-11 PSI
Anti-Drainback Valve - Yes
Outer Diameter top - 2.921
Gasket dimensions:
OD: 2.734
ID: 2.430
Thk: 0.226
This wasn't quite enough for me, so I bought an M1-102 and M1-209 and cut them apart. Again, identical in every respect I can see, except that the M1-209 filter is about half again as long as the M1-102. Also, the M1-209 is very close in size to the Original Equipment filter that came with my GS-430 - A Toyota 90915-20004. It puzzles me why Mobil doesn't specify the M1-209 filter for my GS-430. The only possible reason I can think of is that by specifying the M1-102, they are assured that the same filter will fit in nearly all Toyota/Lexus applications. On my GS-430 though, there is plenty of extra room for the larger filter, again noting that the M1-209 is only very slightly larger than the OEM filter.
Anyway, I do have several pictures if anyone cares to see them, but they are fairly large in file size.
Of course, if your Toyota/Lexus is still under warranty, you would be well advised to stick with what is recommended for your car to preserve the warranty. But in my case, I am going to be using the M1-209.....
First of all, on the Wix website, I cross-referenced both of the above filters to the equivalent Wix models. M1-102 is a Wix 51348; M1-209 is a Wix 51516. Specs from this website (http://www.wixfilters.com) are identical except for length:
Thread size: 3/4-16
By-Pass valve setting - 8-11 PSI
Anti-Drainback Valve - Yes
Outer Diameter top - 2.921
Gasket dimensions:
OD: 2.734
ID: 2.430
Thk: 0.226
This wasn't quite enough for me, so I bought an M1-102 and M1-209 and cut them apart. Again, identical in every respect I can see, except that the M1-209 filter is about half again as long as the M1-102. Also, the M1-209 is very close in size to the Original Equipment filter that came with my GS-430 - A Toyota 90915-20004. It puzzles me why Mobil doesn't specify the M1-209 filter for my GS-430. The only possible reason I can think of is that by specifying the M1-102, they are assured that the same filter will fit in nearly all Toyota/Lexus applications. On my GS-430 though, there is plenty of extra room for the larger filter, again noting that the M1-209 is only very slightly larger than the OEM filter.
Anyway, I do have several pictures if anyone cares to see them, but they are fairly large in file size.
Of course, if your Toyota/Lexus is still under warranty, you would be well advised to stick with what is recommended for your car to preserve the warranty. But in my case, I am going to be using the M1-209.....
07-14-04, 06:00 PM
#4
Driver
Thread Starter
Here is what led me down the path of finding a larger filter:
First, I started out using the Toyota 90915-20004 filters. I really liked this filter, and if it was still available, I would be using it. I know it has been replaced by the 90915-YZZD3 filter, made in Thailand. I'm much less impressed with the quality of this filter...It's quite a bit different internally than the old 20004 filter. I can no longer obtain the 90915-20004 filter in my area, as that model filter has been discontinued.
I've previously used the Mobil-1 filter on all my cars, and have been very happy with them. The shells are sturdier than OEM filters, and I like the filter medium.
The problem is, the model of Mobil-1 filter that fits the 4.3 litre V8 (M1-102) is much smaller than the OEM filter, meaning that it's about 2/3 the size of the OEM one. That means there is a smaller amount of filtering medium for the oil to go through. In addition, Mobil 1 filters are rumored to cause more pressure drop across them, presumably because they filter to a higher degree than standard filters. My thinking is that a larger filter (assuming all other things equal) would overcome the disadvantages of using the Mobil 1 filter. The result is the oil gets filtered better than the OEM filter, with (hopefully) a similar amount of pressure drop across it. The point of this posting is that I believe the M1-209 filter is indeed equivalent in all ways to the M1-102 filter, except that it's about 1/2 again as large, even very slightly larger than the OEM filter.
I know I haven't provided proof of any of these statements here. These conclusions are based on my on informal research. I know others have asked about alternatives to the OEM filter -- And the Mobil 1 M1-209 does appear to fit the bill.
First, I started out using the Toyota 90915-20004 filters. I really liked this filter, and if it was still available, I would be using it. I know it has been replaced by the 90915-YZZD3 filter, made in Thailand. I'm much less impressed with the quality of this filter...It's quite a bit different internally than the old 20004 filter. I can no longer obtain the 90915-20004 filter in my area, as that model filter has been discontinued.
I've previously used the Mobil-1 filter on all my cars, and have been very happy with them. The shells are sturdier than OEM filters, and I like the filter medium.
The problem is, the model of Mobil-1 filter that fits the 4.3 litre V8 (M1-102) is much smaller than the OEM filter, meaning that it's about 2/3 the size of the OEM one. That means there is a smaller amount of filtering medium for the oil to go through. In addition, Mobil 1 filters are rumored to cause more pressure drop across them, presumably because they filter to a higher degree than standard filters. My thinking is that a larger filter (assuming all other things equal) would overcome the disadvantages of using the Mobil 1 filter. The result is the oil gets filtered better than the OEM filter, with (hopefully) a similar amount of pressure drop across it. The point of this posting is that I believe the M1-209 filter is indeed equivalent in all ways to the M1-102 filter, except that it's about 1/2 again as large, even very slightly larger than the OEM filter.
I know I haven't provided proof of any of these statements here. These conclusions are based on my on informal research. I know others have asked about alternatives to the OEM filter -- And the Mobil 1 M1-209 does appear to fit the bill.
05-02-09, 09:20 PM
#5
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Larger Mobil-1 filter for Lexus Engines?
I have a Toyota Avalon which calls for the same filter as your Lexus. A Mercury also sits in my garage. The equivalent of Mobil filters (M1-102) and (M1-209) are called for respectively. Their base and can diameters are the same and I wondered if they could possibly be used interchangeably.
The two filters are virtually identical except that the (M1-209) which is used by the Mercury is about 25-29mm longer. The Avalon has plenty of room for the extra length under my hood.
The tensions of the Anti-Drainback valve and the Oil By-Pass valve are virtually identical. The larger filter has more surface area and volume which increases the filter capacity of the Mobil 1 (M1-209) to lengthen oil change intervals.
If you use standard petroleum oil you probably don't want to go more than the 3000 or 5000 mile intervals your vehicle manufacturer recommends. If you use a quality full synthetic oil with these filters, a periodic chemical analysis may indicate immediate oil change or that it is probably safe going one or more 3000 to 4000 mile oil change intervals.
If regular samples measures appropriate and continuous protection, a person can get the full value of the resistance of the full synthetic oil to break down, compared to standard petroleum oil and do lots of driving without having to change oil & filter so often.
The two filters are virtually identical except that the (M1-209) which is used by the Mercury is about 25-29mm longer. The Avalon has plenty of room for the extra length under my hood.
The tensions of the Anti-Drainback valve and the Oil By-Pass valve are virtually identical. The larger filter has more surface area and volume which increases the filter capacity of the Mobil 1 (M1-209) to lengthen oil change intervals.
If you use standard petroleum oil you probably don't want to go more than the 3000 or 5000 mile intervals your vehicle manufacturer recommends. If you use a quality full synthetic oil with these filters, a periodic chemical analysis may indicate immediate oil change or that it is probably safe going one or more 3000 to 4000 mile oil change intervals.
If regular samples measures appropriate and continuous protection, a person can get the full value of the resistance of the full synthetic oil to break down, compared to standard petroleum oil and do lots of driving without having to change oil & filter so often.
05-02-09, 10:05 PM
#6
I have no idea what would cause someone to doubt this so much... all filters from a given brand are pretty much the same, just external casing and thread diameter / pitch are the only differences... some have a different diameter for the o-ring...
so long as it threads on nicely, threads on completely, and the o-ring makes proper contact, then you're good...
so long as it threads on nicely, threads on completely, and the o-ring makes proper contact, then you're good...
05-02-09, 11:51 PM
#7
If you're the type of person who puts so much thought into oil filters, you are also going to be the type of person that will get antsy enough to change their oil regularly enough so that it wouldn't matter.
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05-03-09, 06:52 AM
#8
Driver
Thread Starter
Actual data comparing sizes of filters
Hello everyone...
I forgot all about this thread, given my last post was about 4.5 years ago. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then!
Since that posting, I acquired a brand new 2006 Toyota Tundra 4WD Double Cab Limited. I decided to use oil analysis, with ISO particle counts, to compare the performance of various filters. This experiment began a couple of years ago, and I have lots of results to show.
Since warranty calls for oil changes every 5,000 miles regardless of the type of service, I decided to have the oil analyzed at the conclusion of each 5,000 mile interval. I paid extra to have ISO particle counts performed, which shows a count of how many loose particles are floating in the oil, sorted by the number of particles in various size ranges.
I have tried very hard to hold as many variables as I can constant - including the length, in miles, of how long the oil was in service. I always used the same brand and type of oil, and even the same brand and grade of gasoline used, mostly bought from the same gas station. The same driver used the vehicle, in the same geographical location. Of course, I could not hold the type of weather constant, nor the exact length of each trip, etc. etc. This is not a laboratory experiment, so I did the best I could.
So far in the experiment, I have used four Mobil 1 M1-209 filters, one M1-102 filter, and two Amsoil EaO-34 filters. See the results in the posted image below.
What is directly related to the topic of this posting - there is very little difference in the performance of the M1-209 and the smaller M1-102 in terms of filtering quality. Of course, this test tells you nothing about the pressure drop across the filter, though.
What is also interesting, and not discussed in this topic so far, is the comparison between the Amsoil EaO filters and the Mobil 1 filters. Based on all the rave reviews of the Amsoil filters, I expected them to perform better than the Mobil 1 filters, but they did not.
Here is the data, judge for yourself....
I forgot all about this thread, given my last post was about 4.5 years ago. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then!
Since that posting, I acquired a brand new 2006 Toyota Tundra 4WD Double Cab Limited. I decided to use oil analysis, with ISO particle counts, to compare the performance of various filters. This experiment began a couple of years ago, and I have lots of results to show.
Since warranty calls for oil changes every 5,000 miles regardless of the type of service, I decided to have the oil analyzed at the conclusion of each 5,000 mile interval. I paid extra to have ISO particle counts performed, which shows a count of how many loose particles are floating in the oil, sorted by the number of particles in various size ranges.
I have tried very hard to hold as many variables as I can constant - including the length, in miles, of how long the oil was in service. I always used the same brand and type of oil, and even the same brand and grade of gasoline used, mostly bought from the same gas station. The same driver used the vehicle, in the same geographical location. Of course, I could not hold the type of weather constant, nor the exact length of each trip, etc. etc. This is not a laboratory experiment, so I did the best I could.
So far in the experiment, I have used four Mobil 1 M1-209 filters, one M1-102 filter, and two Amsoil EaO-34 filters. See the results in the posted image below.
What is directly related to the topic of this posting - there is very little difference in the performance of the M1-209 and the smaller M1-102 in terms of filtering quality. Of course, this test tells you nothing about the pressure drop across the filter, though.
What is also interesting, and not discussed in this topic so far, is the comparison between the Amsoil EaO filters and the Mobil 1 filters. Based on all the rave reviews of the Amsoil filters, I expected them to perform better than the Mobil 1 filters, but they did not.
Here is the data, judge for yourself....
05-03-09, 07:00 AM
#9
the Mobil1 filters are way better than the amsoil filters... hmmmmmm, thats some good ammunition to all the Amsoil lovers that thing Amsoil is the best everything... (they make good products, but some are a little over the top in how much they think they are the best)
also, doesn't seem to be a significant difference (if any at all really) between the 102 and 209....
also, doesn't seem to be a significant difference (if any at all really) between the 102 and 209....
05-03-09, 07:26 AM
#10
When you buy quality stuff, there is little difference in performance.
The same goes with engine oil. I get a kick whenever someone tells me Amsoil engine oil is way better than Mobil 1, Pennzoil, etc just because some UOA says so. You get to the point of diminishing return. Truth is, it's all preference.
The same goes with engine oil. I get a kick whenever someone tells me Amsoil engine oil is way better than Mobil 1, Pennzoil, etc just because some UOA says so. You get to the point of diminishing return. Truth is, it's all preference.
05-03-09, 08:00 AM
#11
Super Moderator
I have used K&N oil filters for virtually the entire time I have had my RX300. Not too long ago, I switched from an OEM-sized HP-1002 to a longer HP-2009 that has fit without an issue.
05-03-09, 02:37 PM
#12
Moderator
Here is what led me down the path of finding a larger filter:
First, I started out using the Toyota 90915-20004 filters. I really liked this filter, and if it was still available, I would be using it. I know it has been replaced by the 90915-YZZD3 filter, made in Thailand. I'm much less impressed with the quality of this filter...It's quite a bit different internally than the old 20004 filter. I can no longer obtain the 90915-20004 filter in my area, as that model filter has been discontinued.
I've previously used the Mobil-1 filter on all my cars, and have been very happy with them. The shells are sturdier than OEM filters, and I like the filter medium.
The problem is, the model of Mobil-1 filter that fits the 4.3 litre V8 (M1-102) is much smaller than the OEM filter, meaning that it's about 2/3 the size of the OEM one. That means there is a smaller amount of filtering medium for the oil to go through. In addition, Mobil 1 filters are rumored to cause more pressure drop across them, presumably because they filter to a higher degree than standard filters. My thinking is that a larger filter (assuming all other things equal) would overcome the disadvantages of using the Mobil 1 filter. The result is the oil gets filtered better than the OEM filter, with (hopefully) a similar amount of pressure drop across it. The point of this posting is that I believe the M1-209 filter is indeed equivalent in all ways to the M1-102 filter, except that it's about 1/2 again as large, even very slightly larger than the OEM filter.
I know I haven't provided proof of any of these statements here. These conclusions are based on my on informal research. I know others have asked about alternatives to the OEM filter -- And the Mobil 1 M1-209 does appear to fit the bill.
First, I started out using the Toyota 90915-20004 filters. I really liked this filter, and if it was still available, I would be using it. I know it has been replaced by the 90915-YZZD3 filter, made in Thailand. I'm much less impressed with the quality of this filter...It's quite a bit different internally than the old 20004 filter. I can no longer obtain the 90915-20004 filter in my area, as that model filter has been discontinued.
I've previously used the Mobil-1 filter on all my cars, and have been very happy with them. The shells are sturdier than OEM filters, and I like the filter medium.
The problem is, the model of Mobil-1 filter that fits the 4.3 litre V8 (M1-102) is much smaller than the OEM filter, meaning that it's about 2/3 the size of the OEM one. That means there is a smaller amount of filtering medium for the oil to go through. In addition, Mobil 1 filters are rumored to cause more pressure drop across them, presumably because they filter to a higher degree than standard filters. My thinking is that a larger filter (assuming all other things equal) would overcome the disadvantages of using the Mobil 1 filter. The result is the oil gets filtered better than the OEM filter, with (hopefully) a similar amount of pressure drop across it. The point of this posting is that I believe the M1-209 filter is indeed equivalent in all ways to the M1-102 filter, except that it's about 1/2 again as large, even very slightly larger than the OEM filter.
I know I haven't provided proof of any of these statements here. These conclusions are based on my on informal research. I know others have asked about alternatives to the OEM filter -- And the Mobil 1 M1-209 does appear to fit the bill.
http://www.l-tunedparts.com/index.php
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...?siteid=214915
05-04-09, 08:31 AM
#14
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thanks for that info. i wanted to look that filter up so i could use a longer filter also for the 2006 es330.
05-04-09, 08:43 AM
#15
Super Moderator
This is how far the HP-2009 sticks out. If I had the HP-1002 in there, you couldn't see the front. With the extended length, best to use a vise wrench that can allow for a 1 inch opening to clamp on to the top in order to remove/install it.