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Number of repainted panels to disqualify it from being a CPO

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Old 05-26-14, 09:05 PM   #1
flux
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Default Number of repainted panels to disqualify it from being a CPO

I've been searching online and on CL for the number of repainted panels to disqualify it from being a CPO. If someone can point it out on the Lexus website, that would be very helpful with my discussions with the dealership.

Long story short... I bought my CPO Lexus CT200h late in the day on May 24th. I later find out on May 25th that the car had been repainted but was not disclosed to me at the time of sales. I called the dealership up and voiced my concerns. I hire a car specialist to inspect the car on the May 26th and find that 4 panels were repainted. I'm awaiting for the full report that should be sent later tonight.

I always thought buying a Lexus CPO would give me the peace of mind but I guess I'm wrong when I hear people's story on CL and other forums. I don't want to have to argue over who or what caused the repainting when it's time to file a legitimate warranty claim that affects the area where the car has been repainted. I know used cars will have scuffs, scratches, and minor dings but I don't expect a CPO to have this much repainting done.

I feel as though I've been misrepresented when they didn't disclose this type of information when I purchased my car. If this is the case, do you think I have a valid reason in wanting my money back or swapping out for something that's comparable? I'm going to try to work things out with the dealership first but if need be, I'll have to get corporate involved.

By the way, I bought my 2008 IS350 brand new and had to file legitimate warranty claims several times. She's still running great with a little over 100K miles on the odometer. I figure a CPO Lexus would bring the same peace of mind but it appears to be off to a bad start. If anyone is reading this, please lend me your advice. Thanks.
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Old 05-27-14, 11:01 AM   #2
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I doubt that there is a specific number for repainted panels under the CPO checklist. The certification process is more a safety and mechanical inspection.

If you have the documentation that show that they've inspected the chassis, suspension and SRS systems, then you should be ok.

It is common practice for body shops to paint more panels than you would think they'd need to. The pearlescent paints seem to be extremely hard to match, so the shops will blend out to other panels in order for the car to look correct. My wife had a 5 year old Acura that had gotten damaged on the left-rear quarter-panel. The body shop ended up painting the quarter-panel, driver door, rear bumper, deck-lid and the spoiler.

Does the carfax list any accidents?
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Old 05-27-14, 11:44 AM   #3
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I doubt that there is a specific number for repainted panels under the CPO checklist. The certification process is more a safety and mechanical inspection.

If you have the documentation that show that they've inspected the chassis, suspension and SRS systems, then you should be ok.

It is common practice for body shops to paint more panels than you would think they'd need to. The pearlescent paints seem to be extremely hard to match, so the shops will blend out to other panels in order for the car to look correct. My wife had a 5 year old Acura that had gotten damaged on the left-rear quarter-panel. The body shop ended up painting the quarter-panel, driver door, rear bumper, deck-lid and the spoiler.

Does the carfax list any accidents?
The CARFAX, Multi-State Vehicle History Report, and the NCIB reports all came up clean. What I'm concerned about is the CPO warranty status when it's time to file a claim. I don't want to get involved in a finger pointing game when I know that's how the car was when I purchased it but the repairing dealership doesn't. Had they disclosed this information on the CPO checklist, I would have not purchased it. I don't mind a few rock chips and scuffs but when I found out that most of my right hand side was repainted, I'm a bit concerned.

You do have a valid point when it comes to the paint shop trying to match the whole right side. I'm just worried that the repaint was because it was accident related. When it comes to repaints, I'm sure the dealership knows all about it when they do their certification. Those things are only a few hundred dollars; a drop in their bucket of wealth.
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Old 05-27-14, 11:52 AM   #4
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So I went to the Lexus website to get a response on the number of repainted panels that will disqualify it from the CPO process, and this was the best answer they can give me.

Click the image to open in full size.

I dug around the web but little could be found. The next best thing was this reference about the Toyota CPO eligibility requirements: http://www.autoloss.com/Diminished-V...l#processnotes
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Old 05-27-14, 04:08 PM   #5
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Best bet would be starting a conversation with the dealership you purchased it from. On Lexus' site they note that there isn't a return policy, but pointing out that their certification was possibly invalid is a pretty strong case for them to document the situation with you or even exchange the car for another. I would not wait around on looping the dealership in on what you have uncovered.

Consumer's have more power today than ever before. Just mention that you're active on Club Lexus and that you'll be more than willing to write reviews.

Selling non-certifiable vehicles as CPO is not something that a dealership wants to get a reputation for.
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Old 05-29-14, 08:14 AM   #6
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Best bet would be starting a conversation with the dealership you purchased it from. On Lexus' site they note that there isn't a return policy, but pointing out that their certification was possibly invalid is a pretty strong case for them to document the situation with you or even exchange the car for another. I would not wait around on looping the dealership in on what you have uncovered.

Consumer's have more power today than ever before. Just mention that you're active on Club Lexus and that you'll be more than willing to write reviews.

Selling non-certifiable vehicles as CPO is not something that a dealership wants to get a reputation for.
Thanks for the advice. I went ahead and spoke with the pre-own sales manager and he said he'll get it in writing that the panels were repainted but I first need to take the car in and go over the area of the car that was repainted. He said he'll color sand the door sill area where the repaint is starting to chip. I don't know what that entails but I hope it last more than 5 years.
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Old 05-29-14, 09:20 AM   #7
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This whole Lexus CPO eligibility requirement is bothering me a bit. I don't understand why Lexus emphasize "rigorous standards" when they don't even bother to make it public. The best they have is a vague checklist with very little detail. It's a bit disappointing because this leaves too much of a gray area for things to happen.

I headed back to the Lexus chat and this is what I got in regards to the Lexus standard and the number of panels that can be painted to disqualify it from being a CPO:
Click the image to open in full size.

Based on this chat, it appears to be 3 panels but then the rep goes on to say it's 4 panels if "we" repainted the panels. I'm guessing the "we" part is the Lexus dealership. The odd thing about my situation is that the CPO manager said they didn't paint the car but rather, it came like this. In either case, they should have noted it on their inspection checklist or not certify it if it doesn't meet the Lexus standards.

Since I'm having the CPO manager have it in writing that the panels were repainted, I'm concerned that it can't be amended to the original certification. Does anyone know if this is possible? It just appears that his word on a piece of paper is meaningless if I take it to another dealership and a finger pointing situation occurs. I guess I'll have to head back to the chat again.

Last edited by flux; 05-29-14 at 09:35 AM..
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Old 05-29-14, 10:22 AM   #8
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If I were in your situation, I'd only feel comfortable with written documentation from someone above the dealership level. It's probably going to be a pain-in-the-a**, but the last thing you want is to have paid for a certified car, but have them deny work at a later date.

The CPO manager (or even the dealership manager) can't give you the assurance that another Lexus dealership will honor the CPO status.

I very highly doubt that any issues would ever arise from this error in their certification process, but I would definitely go through the effort now, rather than pay the price later.
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Old 06-01-14, 07:56 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by TPete19 View Post
If I were in your situation, I'd only feel comfortable with written documentation from someone above the dealership level. It's probably going to be a pain-in-the-a**, but the last thing you want is to have paid for a certified car, but have them deny work at a later date.

The CPO manager (or even the dealership manager) can't give you the assurance that another Lexus dealership will honor the CPO status.

I very highly doubt that any issues would ever arise from this error in their certification process, but I would definitely go through the effort now, rather than pay the price later.
My thoughts exactly. I wanted to nip it in the bud before anything happens.
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Old 06-05-14, 11:21 PM   #10
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So I brought the car back to the dealership this past Saturday and met with the CPO manager. I explained to him my concerns and showed him the area where paint was chipping. He offered to have everything in writing, that they know about it, but I told him that the service would only be good at his dealership and that would make my CPO warranty pointless. I didn't want to drive the long distance to have my car serviced there. He then offered to take the car back, no questions asked because he wanted to make sure I was "happy" with the experience of buying a Lexus at their dealership. When I heard this, I had a feeling he knew they made a mistake and that there might be a catch somewhere. Since the people at this dealership have been good to me during this ordeal, I made it a point that I wanted them to have my business. After talking about swapping out the car for something comparable in their lot, I arrived at the decision of just buying a new 2014 CT200h. I couldn't find anything I liked in the CPO lot but they had something in the new car lot that I liked. I negotiated a price, just below invoice, and it was a price where I thought both parties can walk away satisfied.

Thinking back, things could have been tougher for both parties. They didn't have to take back my car. I could have brought in corporate and a lawyer. More money could have been wasted on lawyers. More stress and more of my ramblings on CL

In the end, I spent a little more money then I wanted. I couldn't negotiate on the best possible price. But I got the piece of mind that I wanted and I'm enjoying the car at the moment. I just wished I had started looking for a new car in the first place!
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Old 06-06-14, 09:46 AM   #11
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I think that sounds like a fair deal. One of the most important parts of buying a new (or near new) car is not having to worry about problems. You now have a newer car than you originally would have had and got it at a good price.
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Old 06-06-14, 10:19 AM   #12
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Great solution!! I'm glad it worked out for you. Enjoy the new car smell!!!
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Old 06-06-14, 10:19 AM
 
 
 
 
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