tinygs

Whats up Brent?? Man I thought you had gone for good.....
Congrats on the newborn....I know hes a handful!
What did you do with your TRD sways??? Are you possibly selling?
Shoot me a pm and let me know.... Tiny

altaf

Thanks for the review... this is the first review I've read about the Daizen sways. I was holding out on purchasing TRD sways just to see if the Daizen's were better - apparently they are!

Can we do a group buy on the Daizen sways? Anyone down?

-Altaf

Vlad_Stein

OK, the part about the less stiff bar offering better ride quality makes sense. What doesn't seem to make sense is the fact that the polyurethane bushing makes the whole thing stiff in turns and soft on bumps.

I would think that all the bushing does is get the pressure to the bar sooner than the rubber one (because it compresses way less). Once it comes down to the bar itself, then only the bar stiffness should be a factor... May be I am wrong.

May be I will have to bum a ride from someone with these bars at the next CL meet. Actual drive is the final measure: all I've said up to now is my interpretation of a theoretical sway behavior. I was just hoping that my interpretation would match real life experience and so far, it doesn't.

Someone have a better theoretical explanation of this?

redgs4

I'll throw this out... Perhaps there is a point where additional stiffness does not contribute to the flatness or control and only adds harshness to the ride and stress to the rest of the suspension components. So the idea is to get as close to this hypothetical point WITHOUT going over [sounds like a game show]. According to some, the TRD sways go way past that point so much that they cause undue stress and actual damage to other suspension components.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

now this is my wild thought, but anything (even metal) they flex a bit. so yes the bushing is hard and not alow movement within the bushing area. however if the sway itself allows more flex, meaning you can "twist" it more than the trd sway, than that could make sense to the overall ride quality

Kajukenbo

I have the polyurethane bushings on my stock sways and I have to agree with Brent's statements in regards to the ride quality. The polyurethane bushings does help flatten out the car alot when cornering. However, it doesn't affect the ride comfort as much as I thought it would.

The car is more responsive to the road condition. I have written a review on the bushings itself after the installed.

here is the link........

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...threadid=62453

I think I will get their sways as well after reading Brent's review.

BLiu

Hi guys,

It is softer on bumps in the straightaways because there is more flex in the Daizen sways than the TRD's. So a lot of the posters are correct in that assumption. The TRD bar is SOLID and it is THICK making it very harsh when it comes to normal ride quality. Keep in mind, that a lot of times when it comes to performance, overkill is the easiest thing to do BUT tuning is an art. The Daizen sways are matched better with the Polyurethane bushings to provide a better compromise between ride and performance. Therefore, when pushed in the turns the combination of the Polyurethane bushings and the sway bar performa as well as a STIFF TRD bar with rubber bushings.

For a better demo just try putting Urethane bushings on a stock sway bar and you can tell the HUGE difference alone in handling as compared to stock bushings. Now, add Daizen's matched front and rear sway bars and you get the total improvement including keeping the rear in line. THEN, on top of that, if you want a little more wiggle or a little more understeer change the setting on the rear - VOILA! One happy driver!

The rear bar is killer too with the dial-in capability of the three-way setting! (Can everyone tell I LOVE this feature?)

Hope this helps.

Brent

dipstick

So does it stand to reason that if you got the Daizen set and wanted to soften it up a bit you could go back to the rubber bushings?

BLiu

You will lose some handling performance but you could do it that way if you like. Personally, I would not do it that way just because the whole goal for upgrading to a sway bar package is to get MAX performance with some minimal compromise in handling which the Daizen bars and Poly bushings will do. But that's just my opinion - others may feel differently.

Brent

DoubleWhoosh

Yes, this pretty much sums it up, there is a point where more doesn't do any good, and actually begins to downgrade things. As I mentioned in another post, even the 93 Cobra Mustang had been extensively track tuned by the engineers at Ford, and they ended up putting SOFTER sway bars than the 5.0 GT/LX models for better handling. This allowed for better adhesion to the road and its inevitable irregularities.

The TRD are very good and very high quality, but yes they seem to go beyond what is necessary, and as we all know, have damaged links and mounts due to their high stiffness.

The same analogy can be applied to most other suspension components. Tires, yes a plus 1 or plus 2 size will increase handling greatly, but after a certain point, the sidwall becomes so stiff (hypothetically say a 21" tire/wheel setup on a GS) that it begins to become worse for handling. Same with springs, shorter stiffer ones are better, but after a certain point, too stiff is no good.

The Daizen bars are able to allow for excellent handling with the good ride due to the matching of sizes with the vehicle and vehicle weight, and also the urethane bushings. Kajukenbo can definitely attest to this, I'm sure he was quite astonished at how much of a difference a simple bushing swap was and still being able to keep the stock bars. This had basically zero effect on the straight ahead ride, since the compliance of the left-to-right was not changed.

This is where the TRD bars fall short per se, as they have rubber bushings. They also would be even stiffer in turns if they had urethane bushings. This is why a bar that is roughly 15% softer can perform the same in turns, while still having compliance for straight ahead driving.

Unsprung weight is also one of the most critical issues with any vehicle. Ask anyone here with 19" or 20" wheels if their car accelerates, brakes or turns better than with the original 17". If they say yes, they are probably pulling your leg. Aesthetics are cool (and still necessary!), but you cannot escape the laws of physics. Sway bars that are solid are considerably heavier than hollow, which is one of the components that can have a very noticeable effect as far as unsprung weight goes.

Brent is pretty picky, I haven't seen him get this excited over anything for his car in a while now. He's even taken things OFF of his car just because they weren't exactly right, so I think his excitement is pretty genuine. It's definitely not a money issue either, his car is pretty spoiled as far as that goes It gets whatever it wants no matter what the cost.

Todd Matsubara
TM Engineering LLC
www.tmengineering.net

rominl

iTrader: (4)

hey todd, good work now you know when i get my next car (you know what i am getting) where i will go for the sways

DoubleWhoosh

Thanks for the kind words rominl!!!

As always, let me know if you need anything for the car or if you have any questions...

DoubleWhoosh

In theory you can do this, but there aren't any rubber bushings made in the specific size of these bars...

rominl

iTrader: (4)

you don't think i will go elsewhere for work on my car right?

TerryTCL

where can i get some polyurethane sway bar bushings for my TRDs?