Originally Posted by lexforlife

okay let me put this to bed

i challange any of you if you ever come down to south florida , i will take you on the ride of your life , my car handles corners like a mini cooper sitting on the ground would , i have sat on the bumpers of many different bimmers , hondas, benzs etc etc in high speed manuvers and the looks on their faces as they look in their rearview mirror is priceless

my car with the flex is very compliant (once you establish the right preloads and damper settings) vs the bilsteins which were just firm all the time but handled like no other , but the bilsteins to me were designed mainly for german heavy cars with the exception of the m3 with the pss9 setup

Originally Posted by GSteg

i think the flex at it's softest setting is a hair stiffer than the CS at full stiffness.

Right now, TRD offers the Blue bar. I haven't seen any TRD sportivos around lately, but I they're not as stiff as the TRD race bay (blue). Most people here talk about the blue bar.

http://lexus-parts.com/partdetail.as...bCategoryID=65
http://lexus-parts.com/partdetail.as...bCategoryID=65

Originally Posted by KevinGS

You're in South Florida. I have no doubt that your car handles like a Mini-Cooper.

My challenge to you is to bring your car to Washington DC, drive through our city, and tell me if you get fatigued from giggling around that seat too much.

I'll tell you this, one of my best friends has a Mini Cooper S...and when we drive through the city, it's fatiguing. That car is set to go-kart firm...and yes, it's compliant around turns but it's not compliant over a northeast's city bumps and dips.

I know the Tom's braces really stiffen things up, and make the whole car rigid. But the cost for those of us that live in an area where we actually see snow is pretty high...

We need a balance of stiffness, body roll, and compliance over bumps. I've heard many people with aftermarket suspensions flat out say, "Oh, I don't drive my car in the city." LOL For me, that's out of the question. I bought my car to be driven, not babied.

In the end, this is why many car enthusiasts who treasure the actual on-road driving experience simply just go out and buy a BMW. Nothing compares to its on-road handling, confidence and compliance...whether your *****-to-the-wall driving on some mountain roads, or whether you're just toodling along in the city.

Yes, they break down more often, but you save money on mods...especially if you're forced to buy several different sets of mods to try to find the right combo for your car. In the end, it might be a wash.

After all the time and money we spend looking for the right combo of handling and compliance, we could just trust those German engineers who have damn-near perfected. We're doing all of our test with no real engineering, and no real measurable results. It's all butt-o-meter stats. For as much as I have modded the performance of my car, that would have probably bought me quite a few years of BMW maintenance. Hmmmm....

Love my Lexus, but that's real talk.

Originally Posted by dlomonosov

Hey Ed,
You know my situation with my car. After all the money I spent on my car to get it fixed is still not fixed 100%. I told my gf that we should make a trip to Ft. L, I would drop her off shopping and I will go see Ed at his shop so he can get this damn car 100%. As you know Ed, I put my GS for sale in here and Autotrader. Then few days ago. I thought to myself I would give this car another try, I got recomended a mech, here next to Orlando that specializes in Toyota/Lexus and has LS430 himself. So, I thought I save a trip to see you first and see what this guy could do. So I will let you know next week and maybe take a ride over there and drive in your monster and take you up on the offer to look at my car. I just got my TTE lip, still in the box.. I just love the potential of the GS, looking at your Ed. And if I can make it feel and hold the road somewhere between M5 and 540i Sport, thats all I need. Ed, thanks on your detailed log. Guys, listen to Ed, he is one of the few that lived through all kinds of set ups and did it himself, with his hands.. I will shoot a PM to you next week and let you know what happened. I spoke to Wringo few days ago, he also aware and is waiting for my response after I see this mech on Monday. The place is Z-tech in Longwood, FL. So Ed, since I just got my Tein CS v2, I just got it adjusted and they are great stiffness wise, I would not want more stiff. So I will keep them for now and see if I end up keeping the car. I will get Daizen sways and not TRD, I complitely agree about what you said. And take it from there. So, Ed last question. If you took an M5 for test drive and and had to compare its road feel, cornering, stiffness of the ride, and performance. What kind of suspension components would you get for my GS to get very close to M5? And can I still use my CS to get there or I need PSS or Flex?! Because stiffness wise, it is not to stiff right now, but not Lexus like at all, I have it set 2 clicks of the stiffest setting in the front and 4 in the back.

Originally Posted by KevinGS

In the end, this is why many car enthusiasts who treasure the actual on-road driving experience simply just go out and buy a BMW. Nothing compares to its on-road handling, confidence and compliance...whether your *****-to-the-wall driving on some mountain roads, or whether you're just toodling along in the city.

Yes, they break down more often, but you save money on mods...especially if you're forced to buy several different sets of mods to try to find the right combo for your car. In the end, it might be a wash.

After all the time and money we spend looking for the right combo of handling and compliance, we could just trust those German engineers who have damn-near perfected. We're doing all of our test with no real engineering, and no real measurable results. It's all butt-o-meter stats. For as much as I have modded the performance of my car, that would have probably bought me quite a few years of BMW maintenance. Hmmmm....

Love my Lexus, but that's real talk.

Originally Posted by natnut

But didn't you have fun modifying your car?

Most of the enjoyment I derive from modding my car isn't so that I can smoke the next BMW I come across but from personalising my car to my tastes.

Originally Posted by lexforlife

....lets not reall use the term compliant for my flex at full stiff with 19in wheels and all other braces is very compliant ( i dont get tossed around ) comfort and compliance can be very different issues where comfort deals with damping and absorbing bumps comfortably and compliant meaning how it absorbs the road irreg without losing control but yet can be firm to the point of annoying

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Yes, you are correct. The Mini Cooper S is quite 'compliant' and controlled when encountering a bump in mid-turn, but it does not 'dampen and absorb' bumps very well, in terms of cabin comfort.

My current setup of Tein CS and Daizen Sways is quite 'compliant' as well...but it doesn't really 'absorb or dampen' bumps any better than that Mini Cooper S.

So here's my point: if the CS isn't going to dampen and absorb well enough for me, I might as well kick my suspension up a notch (with the Flex or with the TRDs) so it flattens the car's responses a bit more (but still hopefully compliant, as you say yours is). I guess I am willing to lose even a little more comfort over bumps, if I can gain a little less roll...while still remaining compliant.

The Daizen Sways (admittedly set to their stiffest setting) certainly sacrificed some comfort, because now the structure is so stiff that the car literally "crashes" into some bumps, and it's felt right through the cabin. I'm afraid the Tom's braces will stiffen it even more, making it worse. But maybe the TRDs will produce the exact same effect, stiffening the structure too much for my tastes. Hmmmmm....

And maybe the Flex are dynamically firmer than the CS anyway. But it sounds like the Flex will not really cause less body roll....it seems that from what most say the Sway Bars dictate body roll more than the coilovers. So I am in no hurry to jump to the Flex if it's just going to stiffen the shock/spring dampening. I can't say I want more dampening, I just want a little less body roll...but I guess to get that, I have to give up another degree of driving comfort.

At this point, I think I am willing to do that, without going full bore crazy. LOL

So, TRDs will probably be my first "test". After that, then maybe the Flex, or the new CS.

Originally Posted by Neo

I had the Flex with Daizen (and Tom's lower and UGO upper braces). I the middle to stiff settings, I love the handling. Ride was not too bad but only over smooth roads. On the soft settings, I hated it. Not only was handling worse (and ride not too much better), but I actually felt somewhat out of control.

With the CS, I felt in control in the whole range.

My biggest reaction when I swapped the Flex for the CS was feedback. There was much more feedback with the Flex. I felt more connected to the road in feel and sound. The latter meant that the Flex contributed to some noise.

When I first got in the car with the CS, the first word in my head was "muted". I felt so detached it felt weird. Over time, however, I learned to really appreciate the CS. With the rest of my mods, the CS gave me just the right amount of handling/ride for a luxury car. The car is less noisy and the ride (although not as soft as OEM) was close to OEM. Most of the time, I don't miss the extra handling. I definitely do not miss the extra noise.

My current setup suits me better.

Originally Posted by lexforlife

okay let me put this to bed

i have had ltuned setup , ltuned with bilstein sport shocks, bilstein pss coils and now teins flex

i have had all these with the sways daizen sways on different settings

from a race teams engineers perspective stiff does not always equate to better or firmer , they can be on opposite sides.


the teins flex is a great setup and bal between real world driving and very aggressive driving almost track like driving , you have infinite amounts of adjustments between height , spring pre loads and damper settings and the ability to tune front to back independent of each other almost corner balance if you would . couple this coilover setup that was designed for japanese cars with a nicely tuned set of sways and you are 3/4 of the way there, i say 3/4 because your susp components will only be as good as the overall design (geometry) of the susp itself. the gs rear subframe has way too much movement within hence the need for the very least toms 6 piece links and toms lower rear brace , it ties your whole subframe into one box which is what you need to extract all of the coilovers and sways abilities.

the teins cs is a great setup as well however its main focus is on ride compliance vs handling , so at its firmest setting it will take control of the road but with many shortcomings which is why you might think adding a stiffer sway is the answer , wrong , you cannot close the gap with stiff/ ridgid sways that were designed for track use and very smooth roads and expect the coils to keep up with the pace , not a good equation, you will be over working the susp and transferring unwanted engeries elsewhere


what you should be after is the truth, do i want handling or comfort for both cant live honestly within the same setup


i have tried the trd and daizens sways with some of the susp applications and the daizens allows me to push the envelope faster and smoother


i challange any of you if you ever come down to south florida , i will take you on the ride of your life , my car handles corners like a mini cooper sitting on the ground would , i have sat on the bumpers of many different bimmers , hondas, benzs etc etc in high speed manuvers and the looks on their faces as they look in their rearview mirror is priceless

my car with the flex is very compliant (once you establish the right preloads and damper settings) vs the bilsteins which were just firm all the time but handled like no other , but the bilsteins to me were designed mainly for german heavy cars with the exception of the m3 with the pss9 setup


to close , yes it is somewhat subjective but facts are facts when it comes to susp setups and design , if you do the research on race teams and how they setup their cars you will always see and hear tweaking going on and how it relates to what track they intend to run on , they would tighten this up and loosen this up etc etc

hope some this helps and remember this , their was a few guys back in 2002 and 2003 that had issues with the front sway bar links snapping after spririted driving because the bars were so ridgid also some had issues with the actual mounts having to be trq frequently again because of excessive stress

take this for what its worth

Originally Posted by dlomonosov

So guys, no one answered my questions, god damn it! lol.. haha.. I have Tein CS v2 almost on the stiffest setting (4 clicks off the rear and 2 clicks of the front). These new CS's do not have a float at all, like I read about the older ones. The ride is a lot more controled and not like stock at all, not even close. It is a lot harsher then OEM, I would not want it more harsher then it is already, I guess Daizen bushings play a big roll in that too. The car leans a lot less in corners then OEM, feels a lot more in control, and a bit bouncy over bumps then OEM. So, my question still is. Do I need to do full suspension mods; links, all braces, and sways to get the ride, road feel, and performance close to M5 or a bit better then 540I with my Tein CS v2, because if Flex on softest setting is like Tein CS v2 on a striffest, that is already stiffer ride then 540i or M5, I think, as I rememer riding in my friends 540I?!

Last night my friend took my car around my gated community where I live late at night and wanted to test my car in turns, he said it handles better then his BMW 325ci w/ out sport package hands down?!