Jeff, the answer is TRD and your ride is flat as a pancake. Even if you have to sell the Daizen sways and spend a bit more for TRD bars, it is worth of investment. Now, i'm running Tein CS after i sold you my Flex's (which i regretted later on) anyway, i couldn't find Tein CS & Daizen sways work properly together, decided to go with TRD over Daizen and must tell you.....i'm very satisfied with results. As of now, with all suspention upgrades i have up to date this is very close to where i wanted to be.

My VSC is kicking like crazy now while turning left/right due to low body roll, looks like i need LSD now

I've spent so much time playing with all possible Sway bar combinations (avalible for me at that time) mixing and matching Stock front/rear, Daizen front/rear, TRD rear and finally end up on Full TRD set

My personal advice for you, Sell Daizens and get TRD bars, you won't regret at all. Oh and ride is not much harsher than on Daizen, which wont bother you anyway since you want your car on high end handling level

- Jake

 

Well, damn, Jake, this is GREAT info for me. I am almost in the exact same position as you....debating the best way to improve my handling without going into full go-kart mode. LOL

I have the CS and Daizen Sways, and want less body roll, without a significant decrease in ride comfort.

So, you're telling me that the TRD sways with the CS handles much better than with the Daizen, without it being a WHOLE lot stiffer???

Also, why did you sell the Flex and move to the CS? VERY curious. I am thinking about doing the opposite, to improve the feel of the car, and flatten its body roll. Hmmmmm...

You posted at a perfect time, because you are holding a key to which way I move next. Thanks in advance!

By the way, I drive through the mean streets of Baltimore and DC often...and to tell you the truth, even with the Tein CS and Daizen Sways and the 19" fat setup, the ride is still pretty bad. Now it's not totally giggly, like if you just have springs on your car...but it's giggly enough. I have the Daizen Sways on their stiffest setting, and it makes the cr stiff enough that it deteriorates the compliance over most bumps, even small ones come crashing through into the interior at times. It's nowhere near compliant (like BMW compliant). So I'm at the point in my thought-process that if the ride is gonna be this bad, I might as well get better handling out of the car as well. I'm starting to think, how much worse can it get...when using any of the Tein systems?

But seeing that you moved from the Flex to the CS, maybe it CAN get much worse? So did you move from Flex to CS for comfort reasons, noise reasons, or other reasons?

 

Actually, I'm the one that bought Jake's Tein Flex. He's also the one that got me to switch to TRD sways. Thanks for that!

I think the reason he sold the Flex was because the roads in his area are terrible. I live in Texas where almost all of the roads are smooth. So the occasional bump I get doesn't bother me too much because it really doesn't happen very much. I've driven through some really rough areas where the roads were shoddy and full of potholes. Yes, the Flex does get quite bumpy and a big jarring at times. Just slow down thru those areas and you should be A-OK.

This is just my opinion based on the area I live in. I know most of you aren't fortunate to live in an area with perfectly smooth roads and such. So I guess you need to decide based on your daily commute.

 

Yes, Flex are great but not for Chicago roads, not where i live and work. Like i said before, Tein Flex have outstanding handling performance and i never tought that CS are so soft ( i was mad when i sold Flex's and got CS installed)anyway, having Tein CS compromise my every day commute but Daizen sway bars did not do too much to help with body roll, i was mixing and matching for about 2 months, end up with full TRD setup. I could not belive how much difference is betwen Daizen and TRD.
I've bought used TRD sways for about $400.00 and if i would have to sell them i would offer L-tuned price with free shipping, thats how much i like TRD's
In my opinion....if you're running CS and you think you're still way behind in handling dept. TRD is way to go
Having Flex's, Daizen sways might be just enough
I've had a chance to do homemade "Daizen" rear sway bar out of Stock OEM, drilling holes about inch/inch and 1/4 behind original ones + Daizen (sway bar) upgraded bushings makes OEM bar almost at par with original Daizen sway bar. I DON'T INCOURAGE ANYONE TO DO WHAT I DID WITH OEM SWAY BAR, I'M SHARING WITH YOU, MY PERSONAL EXPIRIENCE
DO NOT TRY AT HOME!!!! DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS, IT MAY COST YOU, YOUR LIFE!!!!!


KevinGS :""""""Well, damn, Jake, this is GREAT info for me. I am almost in the exact same position as you....debating the best way to improve my handling without going into full go-kart mode. LOL

I have the CS and Daizen Sways, and want less body roll, without a significant decrease in ride comfort.

So, you're telling me that the TRD sways with the CS handles much better than with the Daizen, without it being a WHOLE lot stiffer???

Also, why did you sell the Flex and move to the CS? VERY curious. I am thinking about doing the opposite, to improve the feel of the car, and flatten its body roll. Hmmmmm...

You posted at a perfect time, because you are holding a key to which way I move next. Thanks in advance"""""""

If you have CS already, just get TRD's, thats all you need, unless you want to go my route,
go thru two sway bar sets

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS BASED ON MY PERSONAL EXPIRIENCE, PLEASE DO NOT HOLD ME RESPONSIBLE FOR DECISIONS YOU MAKE
- Jake

 

Hi. Just came across this thread. If I remember correctly,there was a huge debate in CL forums about TRD blues vs TRD whites(sportivo) vs Daizen around 2003.

The debate was finally settled when one very rich CL forumer actually did a head to head comparison of laptimes amongst the 3 sways using the same setup each time except for the change in the sways :

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...aizen+sportivo

If you believe him, the Daizens seem to subjectively handle worse then the TRD blues but actually give faster lap times.

 

Lexsoos, I hold you personally responsible for any bad decisions I make.

When you had the Flex, did you have the EDFC? I want to know if the Flex softest setting was much less comfortable than the CS system when going over bumps.

And Jeff, it seems that you do not have an EDFC and did not have the Flex system on its stiffest setting. You said you weren't happy with the Flex/Daizen set up...but I wonder if you would have been happy had you had the ability to set the Flex to its stiffest setting with the Daizen sways (also on its firmest setting)? Hmmmm...

In the end, with an EDFC to manipulate the handling characteristics on the fly, I want to know if the Flex/Daizen setup corners flatter than the CS/TRD sways setup....when the Teins & Sways are set to their stiffest settings.

And I want to know which of these two setups offers the most compliant characteristics when the settings of the Tein are set to their softest settings.

 

Kevin. When I had the Daizens I would play around with the Flex damper settings every once in a while. The Flex at the stiffest setting with daizen bars still had more roll than the Flex at softest with TRD bars.

Personally I think you should only go with the Flex + TRD route if you live in an area with nice and smooth roads. If you are in pothole territory you might want to consider using the Daizens.

 

Good find,
Opinions may vary from person to person, Navaz likes Daizen and i don't blame him

We don't know too many things like
1. What was time difference betwen all runs
2. Test wasn't done at the same time (within few months, his tranny blew in betwen) ect.

I belive his point is, personal taste and what works better for him

I never said that Daizen is better or worse than TRD
Let keep comments coming!!

 

how do Bilstein PSS coilovers, as far as: feel on the road, body roll, cornering, ride, compared to Flex and CS. I assume CS is the softest and most comfortable with a bit less performance. CS is what I have. I always woundered how PSS compare, since not a lot of people use them. I know DaveGS4 has them with TRD sways and all other suspension mods. I am also leaning towards TRD, thanks to Lexsoos, but some people say TRD with CS would not be a good balance, because CS is geared towards comfortable and TRD is the stiffest and would be more suitable with Flex or PSS. But Daizen would work well with Flex and PSS and CSS, espacially because they would compliment the stiffness of Flex and PSS and go great with Dazien. All this is personal opinions of people, all people have different prospective on how the ride should be. So, I think the best combination would be whatever an engineer would say it is. I mean track times of different sway bars I think is not what we need, since we do not race on track most of us. I mean I believe in balance myself. If you get in to M3 you understand that M3 was engineered so well and all its suspension components work just perect together and obviously its weight distribution helps alot. So, I think some people might say, hey this feels so much better but it actually feels or performs wrong. Some on like Todd from TM should maybe put his 2 cents in. What suspension components to use with GS on 18-19" wheels with CS, Flex, PSS or spring/shock combo, as far as sways, etc.. Thats my 2 cents. I want to try TRD myself and see how they are, I just emailed Todd to see what he would suggest.

 

You said that we should go with what an engineer would say.
He would probably say : "go with the sways that actually makes the car go faster!"

That's why Navaz's post was so important. It cuts through all of these subjective opinions and presents real facts.

The main reason for choosing an aftermarket sway is to improve handling.

I can't think of another more practical or "real-world" measure of handling than track-times.


Can you imagine a race car engineer ever saying :this sway bar actually makes the car go slower but we'll go with it because it feels better, even though that probably means we'll lose the race!

As for street use.... well ,the general consensus is that the Daizen gives a better and more comfortable ride than the TRD so it is more practical for a driver who never tracks his car.

 

The thing is, Navaz didn't post results so we can't tell if his track times are 5 seconds apart, or 0.005 seconds, after all, he used a stopwatch. Also, it'll depend on the track itself because the difference the mod makes will be more apparant on a track that is longer and/or has more turning.

He did bring up a good point saying how we should experiement with all the bars and see what we like the best. Unfortunately, not everyone has the time and money to try all the bars so we have to go with either what someone says, or not get anything at all.

 

okay let me put this to bed

i have had ltuned setup , ltuned with bilstein sport shocks, bilstein pss coils and now teins flex

i have had all these with the sways daizen sways on different settings

from a race teams engineers perspective stiff does not always equate to better or firmer , they can be on opposite sides.


the teins flex is a great setup and bal between real world driving and very aggressive driving almost track like driving , you have infinite amounts of adjustments between height , spring pre loads and damper settings and the ability to tune front to back independent of each other almost corner balance if you would . couple this coilover setup that was designed for japanese cars with a nicely tuned set of sways and you are 3/4 of the way there, i say 3/4 because your susp components will only be as good as the overall design (geometry) of the susp itself. the gs rear subframe has way too much movement within hence the need for the very least toms 6 piece links and toms lower rear brace , it ties your whole subframe into one box which is what you need to extract all of the coilovers and sways abilities.

the teins cs is a great setup as well however its main focus is on ride compliance vs handling , so at its firmest setting it will take control of the road but with many shortcomings which is why you might think adding a stiffer sway is the answer , wrong , you cannot close the gap with stiff/ ridgid sways that were designed for track use and very smooth roads and expect the coils to keep up with the pace , not a good equation, you will be over working the susp and transferring unwanted engeries elsewhere


what you should be after is the truth, do i want handling or comfort for both cant live honestly within the same setup


i have tried the trd and daizens sways with some of the susp applications and the daizens allows me to push the envelope faster and smoother


i challange any of you if you ever come down to south florida , i will take you on the ride of your life , my car handles corners like a mini cooper sitting on the ground would , i have sat on the bumpers of many different bimmers , hondas, benzs etc etc in high speed manuvers and the looks on their faces as they look in their rearview mirror is priceless

my car with the flex is very compliant (once you establish the right preloads and damper settings) vs the bilsteins which were just firm all the time but handled like no other , but the bilsteins to me were designed mainly for german heavy cars with the exception of the m3 with the pss9 setup


to close , yes it is somewhat subjective but facts are facts when it comes to susp setups and design , if you do the research on race teams and how they setup their cars you will always see and hear tweaking going on and how it relates to what track they intend to run on , they would tighten this up and loosen this up etc etc

hope some this helps and remember this , their was a few guys back in 2002 and 2003 that had issues with the front sway bar links snapping after spririted driving because the bars were so ridgid also some had issues with the actual mounts having to be trq frequently again because of excessive stress

take this for what its worth

 

good point but he did say the Daizen was consistently faster than the TRD in all the laps.

 

Honestly, I really don't care about race track times. What I care about is how much speed I can carry through a turn, AND how confident I feel doing it. I don't mind sliding around a turn, as long as it's a predictable, controllable slide. That's still fun to me, balancing the gas pedal with the weight of the car as I steer through a turn as fast as possible.

I really don't need a "go-kart" feel, because oftentimes that means the car slides earlier and is less controllable (especially at its limit)...and also it often means your ride comfort has diminished considerably. Vettes handle great, but are not nearly as controllable (and many would say not as fun) as an M3 which is more compliant and forgiving. "Go-kart" suspensions also dont typically react too well to a bump in mid-corner, causing the car to hop over the bump and move off its course. Compliant suspensions soak these kind of sensations up. The mid-corner, wheel-hop sensation is what I definitely don't want because this kind of sensation eventually erodes my confidence when I'm really zipping through some curves or ramps I'm not familiar with.

This is why I am pretty happy with the CS/DaizenSways setup. It's pretty forgiving in turns, and the slides are fun and controllable....with some body roll built in.

BUT, in city situations, the suspension just can't soak up the bumps well enough for me. So, I figure that if it's going to feel this stiff in the city, I might as well get a little flatter cornering response.

So I don't know. I will probably try the TRDs first (which ones, by the way? aren't there two types?). And then I may eventually move to the Flex or the New CS.

The question I can't seem to get answered though is if you have the EDFC, and you put the Flex on soft, and you have the Daizen sways (or the TRD sways), how compliant or soft is the suspension to the butt-o-meter? Is the Flex on its softest setting still harder than riding with the CS on its firmest setting?

 

i think the flex at it's softest setting is a hair stiffer than the CS at full stiffness.

Right now, TRD offers the Blue bar. I haven't seen any TRD sportivos around lately, but I they're not as stiff as the TRD race bay (blue). Most people here talk about the blue bar.

http://lexus-parts.com/partdetail.as...bCategoryID=65
http://lexus-parts.com/partdetail.as...bCategoryID=65