howdybob22

As EJC stated above

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

The main reason for the IS350 feeling much quicker, is because the newer tranny are much more responsive. Especially when you compare to the 5-speeds on the older SC430, those are much more sluggish. Even the 6-speeds in the newer SC430 are quite a bit less responsive then the tranny in the IS350.

But like everyone said, the SC430 is still much cooler though.

I always prefer to have a older higher end car then a newer lower end car.

syzygy

They're not, certainly not for the IS350. Multiple independent reviews have repeatedly come to the same conclusion - the "official" Lexus numbers for the IS350 are severely understated (This shouldn't be news to anyone. BMW has been doing this for years. Most car makers tend to err on the side of understating figures to protect themselves from false advertising suit)

The 0 to 60 acceleration for the IS350 is about 4.8 to 5.1 seconds, with an average around 4.9 seconds.

zeroto60times IS350 = 4.8 seconds 2007 Lexus IS 350 0-60 mph 4.8 Quarter mile 13.3 (zeroto60times.com)

Torquestats IS350 0 to 60 = 4.9 seconds (torquestats.com)

Road and Track IS350 0 to 60 = 4.9 seconds

Road and Track's IS350 acceleration stats:



Here's the PDF file showing their 0 to 60 run (4.9 seconds) and 1/4 mile run in 13.5 flat, in 90 degree weather no less:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezfl...a4be35078d.pdf

Car and Driver IS350 0 to 60 = 5.1 seconds

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...s_is350_page_8

And, I quote:

"C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.1 sec

You won’t be working too hard to repeat our 5.1-second 0-to-60-mph time"

Edmunds IS350 0 to 60 = 5.2 seconds

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-seri...us-is-350.html

So there are 5 independent sources all putting the IS350's 0 to 60 in the range of 4.8 seconds to 5.2 seconds, 3 of them being highly decorated/professional (Road and Track, Car and Driver, Edmunds)

Owners have measured a bone stock IS350's 0 to 60 in as low as 4.7 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj-Zv...layer_embedded

It should be noted that that run required brake torquing to some RPM slightly above idle. Thus, the car does not begin to move when you see the RPMs rise or when you begin to hear the sound.

Owners with slight modifications (exhaust, intake) have measured as low as 4.6 seconds or even 4.5 seconds 0 to 60 =

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7-Ht39T4Ms


On dragtimes.com, the 5 fastest bone stock 1/4 mile times for an IS350 are as follows:

13.228
13.234
13.345
13.420
13.459

The two fastest (only) 1/4 mile times listed for an SC430 (both stock) are

14.800
14.810

Granted, I doubt SC430 owners take their car out to drag that often, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if you told me that 14.8 in the quarter is not optimal for an SC430 by any means.


But, if you guys want to think that the SC430 is "just" .2 seconds slower than an IS350, I have no qualms with that, I'm just offering you guys the information available.


Road and Track above cited the IS350's 0 to 60 in 4.9 seconds. The same source - Road and Track - cited the SC430's 0 to 60 in 6.2 seconds and quarter mile in 14.6 seconds -

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/dr..._sc_430_page_2

That's 1.3 seconds slower than an IS350, not .2 seconds

Car and Driver cited the IS350's 0 to 60 in 5.1 seconds. The same source - Car and Driver - cites the SC430's 0 to 60 in 6.1 seconds -

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...a53f25f404.pdf

That's 1.0 seconds slower than an IS350.

The point is, looking at the data from independent sources (and comparing data between cars from the same source) yields a very different story

The answer (why the IS350 is so much faster than an SC430) has more to do with the way the IS350 is geared versus having a simple weight advantage.

syzygy

"Lexus estimates that the likelihood of a customer vehicle experiencing this condition is two-tenths of one percent (0.2 %). Lexus has received no reports of accidents or injuries related to this condition. No vehicles from the current 2010 model year nor 2009 are affected."

Replacing the valve springs (free to the customer) completely resolves any potential problem. The problem only arose for certain 2006-2008 models due to quirky factory installation -


"According to them, there is a set of robots that assemble these engines. In late 2007/early 2008, one of the robots was found to be out of adjustment, such that when it installed the spring, it scraped it and caused a "score" mark on it. That small score mark created a weak point that can cause a failure of the spring after thousands of cycles.

By the time they discovered the adjustment problem, a large number of engines had been assembled and put into cars, which had been shipped out over the world. It was not known if it would be a problem or not, nor when it might result in a failure, so Lexus had to deal with it when/if a spring failed."

"Debbie Pattullo, National Manager for Lexus New Zealand, says the springs will be replaced over the next few months, purely to remove the possibility of future problems."

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Everything is a factor, weight, gearing, responses of the tranny/engine, even traction, the IS comes stock with wider tires 255 vs. 245.....it is just a little, but it adds up. Also the IS is tuned to be sporty, even all the firmer bushings (engine mount, suspension bushings.....etc) makes a difference in acceleration times. The SC430 is tune for comfort, it is a GT.

syzygy

All true.

By the way, just a disclaimer: I think the SC430 is a baller car, no disrespect for it at all.

In some sense, I've always been a BMW guy (I'm coming from a 335i coupe that gave me nothing but problems) and the IS350 was my first "gateway drug" into the world of Lexus.

To be brutally honest, there are a lot of cars in the Lexus lineup that I'd never consider in a million years - HS250h, for example. No thanks.

But, the SC430 is one of the few that I would consider. Lexus made it well, but like the Mercedes counterpart (SL500), it was never touted for having blistering acceleration.

Mercedes rectified that situation quickly by introducing the more powerful SL550 later (and 63/65 AMG). Will be interesting to see what Lexus brings to the table in the future if they choose to resurrect the SC line.

KaiserSea1

First, to say the IS has a better motor and tranny, you forget that apples to apples, the IS350C is slower than an SC430. Put the cars at the same weight, and the ISV6 gets beat by the bigger V8 all day. Stick a 4cyl toyota motor in a lotus, and it pushes that paperweight as fast as a Porsche. It does not make the Toyota engine better, just gives it less to push.

I put up the numbers from a lot of publications, the mean claimed 5.6, kind of strange so much deviation in the numbers, more strange that you think Lexus would understate the IS and overstate the SC.

I think very few SC owners care what the 0-60 is, I know what got me was after driving the car, I thought, damn this thing feels like a fortune. Any car under six seconds to 60 feels pretty good, today so many cars come in under four, that the IS350 is still a slower sport sedan as they go. Thats why they made an ISF. If I wanted a really fast car, I would probably go for a Caddy CTS V.

I had a loaner IS350 and I thought it felt very fast, but kind of blah inside. A lot of hard plastic, cheap trim. What kept getting me was the feeling of the steering wheel. The one place you really need to put the good leather, they used a very vinyl feeling wrap. It could be because accords, and everything Hyundai have come so far in the quality of their materials that the IS feels like a commuter car inside. When driving the SC you never forget, this is about as good as it gets. To be fair the IS is entry level, and a very good car. It is just very hard to downgrade once you are used to all Lexus could throw into a $70K car.

As far as IS owners claiming speeds a second quicker than Lexus, it is just not credible. I am sure the next gen IS will be much more upscale and quite a bit faster. The same way the SC has become a lame duck compared to the Germans, the IS now has to catch the Koreans. Good for all of us, we all have great cars now, and will have better cars tomorrow thanks to the competition.

syzygy

Well, the issue here is, you did not look up numbers from actual tests performed by a number of these entities. Rather, you likely viewed an older article where they state, by default, 0 to 60 times cited by Lexus.com because they have nothing else to go by.

For example, you claimed that Motor Trend cited the IS350's 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds. This is actually not the case.

Motortrend cited the IS350's 0 to 60 in 5.2 seconds from their own independent test, as indicated here:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rack_test.html

"Burdening each one of its 306 horsepower with just 11.7 pounds, the IS was the quickest to 60 (5.2 seconds)" -MotorTrend

With brand new cars, before road tests are performed, it's typical for magazines/3rd parties to cite "official" numbers from Lexus or BMW, etc. by default. It doesn't seem appropriate to use these numbers and factor them into your "average," because all you end up doing is counting Lexus' "official" time of 5.6 multiple times over.

You acknowledged that Edmunds 2010 cited the IS350's 0 to 60 in 5.2 seconds, yet you factored in their 2009 estimate of 5.6 seconds.

There's a reason why Edmunds clocked a slower 0 to 60 time in the past for the IS350 - it had to do with having traction control enabled. For their most recent test, Edmunds disabled traction control and achieved their 5.2 second time. They specifically mention this in their most recent evaluation -

"With the 2007 Lexus IS 350's traction control shut down, we managed to find nearly a half-second improvement in its acceleration profile on the drag strip... The launch to 30 mph is 0.4 second quicker, as is the time to 60 mph. "

If you're trying to gauge an "average" performance for a car, it seems silly to consider numbers for the car when it's presented with an obvious handicap, such as having traction control enabled.

The 1/4 mile statistics you cited must have been for the IS350c, because they are incorrect across the board for the IS350.

For other sources, your figures were flat out wrong. For example, you claimed that AOL auto cited the IS350's 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds, when in fact, they cite it at 5.3 seconds -

http://autos.aol.com/cars-Lexus-IS+3...expert-review/

"The IS 350 has a 3.5-liter V6 that makes 306 horsepower, 277 lb.-ft.of torque, and can hit 60 mph in just 5.3 seconds."

Your figure for Cnet is correct for the IS350c, but we are talking about the IS350.

syzygy

I still agree with you on the SC being a far more luxurious package than the IS350. No disagreements there. My father has an LS460 and the difference between our cars, interior-wise, is night and day. I suspect the SC430's interior is similar to the LS460.

However, I think it's important for potential buyers to have a clear picture of what the IS350 offers. Perhaps its interior trim has "entry level luxury" written all over it, but down low acceleration is the one spot where it truly shines.

Not trying to "step on the toes" of SC430 drivers, I was just rectifying a few misconceptions regarding the IS350's acceleration.

I agree, any car that can get from 0 to 60 in under 6 seconds is pretty damned quick in this day and age, and the SC430 certainly fits the bill in that regard.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Depends on which package LS460, in general the SC430's interior is nicer because it has leather everywhere, on the door's arm rest, center console....etc. Where the LS460 still got plastic arm rest on the door unless it got the extra leather package. The SC430 also got far more wood coverage. In my opinion, the SC430 have the most luxurious interior out of all Lexus, yes including the LFA because the LFA focus on being sporty, it got no wood, just carbon fiber.

To sum it up here, do the IS350 offer quicker acceleration then the SC430? Definitely! But do we SC430's owners care? Most of us don't. Each car have a certain purpose, I own my SC430 for the purpose of cruising down pacific coast highway with the top down in complete luxury, very high refinement and very elegant and unique styling. For this purpose, the speed of the SC430 is perfectly sufficient, also for this type of feel good car, the sounds offer by the V8 is very important. A V6 in this application would not be appropriate.

If I want a car for speed? I would buy a Nissan GTR, with a chip and exhaust, it does 0-60 in 2.9 and the 1/4 in 10.9.........that's acceleration I can appreciate. Even the IS-F can't satisfy my speed appetite when I feel the need for speed

bopc1996

My sc430 is sooooooooo much sexier !!!

tromly

, great answer, the SC is a luxury touring coupe, not a high performance machine !!

iolmaster

iTrader: (1)

Must be something of a Virginia thing. I use mine in the mountains in the west and it does great with the hills and curves.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

The transmission in your 03 is really slowing you down. It's not as efficient and fast as the 6spd found in the IS350. Stock for stock, the IS350 is lighter but also puts down ~265whp while the SC430 only cranks out ~235whp. The SC430's V8 puts out more torque, but that's just one part of the story. IS350 can easily make up the torque deficit through gear multiplication. In every single gear, the IS350 makes more peak torque than the SC430.

KaiserSea1

The IS engine and tranny are based on the 3.5 set up in the 06 Rav4, Camry, sienna etc. The mechanicals in the SC are shared with the LS. Having owned a V6 Rav4 I really enjoyed the performance of this set up, but there is only so much Toyota can do with an engine and tranny designed for cars starting at 20k. It would simply cost too much to put the running gear of an SC into an IS. A camaro V6 is faster than a Northstar V8 Caddy. Comparing them is just as silly as comparing ours.