Hello. I am a long time lurker and I recently joined. I have decided to make my next purchase an SC300 or SC400. Until today, I was going to buy a 1998 plus SC400 with VVTI with ~130K miles but I found a seller that has 97 SC300 with 5 speed manual. The concern I have outside the worn out drivers seat that will need to be replaced is it has ~200K miles and they want $15K for it. The car looks like it is in amazing condition and the guy said the maintenance is up to date but I'll have to verify that before I buy. Assuming everything else is in order, should I be concerned about the 200K plus miles? I know these engines can last if properly taken care of but it seems high especially given the price tag. However, there aren't many opportunities to buy and SC with a factory manual with high miles or not.

I'm curious what you veterans think.

Thanks.

 

Its hard for me to wrap my head around the prices for these cars nowadays considering you could get a 98+ SC400 3 years ago for under 6k with lower miles than that. Personally I wouldn't pay anywhere close to 15k for any car with that many miles on it. Bottom line for anything with that kind of mileage is that it will need a bunch of small maintenance on it even if all the big stuff is done. IE you'll probably have the climate control display partly burned out, maybe the sterio unit's display too. If the suspension hasn't been addressed you'll likely need to replace all of the components with bushings on them or replace them. Subframe mounts, engine mounts, trans mount, steering rack bushings, pretty much anything rubber that hasn't been replaced will need to be replaced either at purchase or very shortly after.

basically unless EVERYTHING was done, there is no way its worth 15k in my book

 

The other factor here is that you've found a 1997 SC300 factory 5-speed manual for sale (assuming it wasn't originally an automatic swapped to manual). Only 120 of those were made for the 1997 model year and it was the final year for manuals transmission SC's. Any model year factory manual SC commands more money than automatic SC's (apart from the 1998-2000 SC400's and maybe any final model year SC300/400) but the 1 of 120 1997 5-speeds do command more money.

200k miles, if the majority of maintenance has been kept up with, shouldn't be a deterrent. The seat leather being worn out is pretty common as is the LCD screen for the climate control needing replacement. Similarly dash cluster needle lighting or gauges or backlighting needing some repair. All common issues with SC's at this point that are regularly addressed.

Overall condition inside and out and the maintenance records will determine whether that $15k asking price is on the mark or not. But... 1 of 120 cars are very rare today so that is still a factor.

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In terms of which car you'll have a good experience with overall regardless of the asking prices for each... assuming both cars are in mostly great cosmetic and mechanical condition with clean titles there shouldn't be any major issue other than maintenance and occasional age-related fixes along the way.

Other than the exclusivity of owning a '97 factory 5-speed the biggest differences will be in terms of whether you'll be happier with an automatic or a manual SC and in terms of whether you will want to turbocharge whichever SC you buy.

The 1992-1997 factory 5-speeds start out as manuals and have stronger turbo-friendly rods and pistons from the factory in their Non-VVT-i version of the 2JZ-GE. There is *much* more to an NA-T conversion than just that and even the W58 in the '97 5-speed will need to be replaced with a stronger manual gearbox and matching front driveshaft (plus a turbo-capable ECU and manh other supporting modifications for forced induction) but a good deal of hardware that you will want to start out with is already there from the start.

The 1998 SC300 differs in that if a manual transmission will be desired it will have to be converted with manual pedals, clutch master cylinder, etc. and that there is no off-the-shelf non-turbo manual transmission ECU that you can easily plug in with a 2JZ-GE VVT-i engine... which means you'll have to employ a few tricks to make the ECU happy in order to eliminate the CEL you'll get from having no automatic under the car.

Plus the 2JZ-GE VVT-i engine has the weaker rods, pistons and rings from the factory which, IF you want to boost the engine, requires you to pull it, fully tear it down and upgrade the rods, pistons and rings to strengthen the bottom end for turbocharging.

As for ECU control of a strengthened bottom end 2JZ-GE VVT-i NA-T engine you have more options such as Supra and Aristo 2JZ-GTE VVT-i ECU's or many aftermarket ECUs that now easily handle VVT-i cam control.

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Both cars have the same extremely strong forged steel crankshaft, very high nickel content cast iron engine block and both style cylinder heads can handle boost easily with ARP head studs and an OEM 2JZ-GTE head gasket.

Both engines will require, for turbocharging, removing the upper oil pan to drill out the un-machined turbo oil return area and have all the shavings washed away before reinstallation.

Both cars require fuel system upgrades for turbocharging. And actually the 1998-2000 cars require a fuel return system to be added in whereas the 1992-1997 cars have a return style fuel system from the factory.

Both cars can take a JDM 1JZ-GTE or JDM or USDM style 2JZ-GTE swap as well. If you have to worry about smog testing where a JDM engine would get you flagged and make it impossible to pass inspection then only 1992-1997 SC's can legally be swapped to a USDM 2JZ-GTE Supra Turbo engine for CA while for all other 49 states the 1998 model year SC can do it since for the 1998 model year the USDM 2JZ-GTE was 49-state Federal Emissions only.

In your case for Texas both cars can be swapped in such a way with an emissions legal USDM turbo engine although it is a LOT of work compared to almost any other engine swap or NA-T turbo conversion.

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If on the other hand turbocharging in any form isn't what you'll be interested in now or down the road then the decision should come down to whether you'll be happy with an automatic or manual SC (the 1998-2000 being a bit harder to convert to manual given the tricky VVT-i ECU situation) and whether or not the rarity of a 1997 factory 5-speed manual SC300 is important to you or not.

 

Thanks for the insight. I actually decided to pull the trigger on the SC400. I plan to keep it stock and while I certainly prefer the manual, I really want the V8 with VVTI. I plan to keep this car as a collectible driver. The interior and exterior in the SC400 is nearly flawless and it only has ~130K miles, about as much as my 2015 Tacoma. Lol. It is a 2000 model SC400, which is pretty rare in and of itself. Not 97 5-speed manual rare but there were only 324 made that year. So, it's pretty rare too. I'm actually amazed we can still get these cars so cheap but I'll be keeping my new to me SC400 forever.

 

Excellent decision!! You'll be very happy with that car! The SC body with that engine, transmission and the 3.26:1 rear end are an excellent combination and being a 2000 model year you have a VERY rare example! As I understand it, for 2000 the SC400 VVT-i was a special order only deal which explains why so few of them were made for the U.S. in the final model year. I think the realization of the value of the late model SC400 VVT-i's hasn't fully taken yet when the rarity of the 5-speed manual cars gets highlighted more. But that will change.

And to me-- when comparing to the 1997 SC factory 5-speed I completely missed that you said "1998 plus SC400 with VVT-i" when I had though you said "1998 SC300 with VVT-i". The choice between the late model V8 with VVT-i and the 97 5-speed makes for a very different decision.

 

The "1998 plus" confused me... I didn't realize that meant 1998+, as in 1998-2000! A 2000 model is indeed very rare, with only 324 produced.

I think you made the right choice. I've owned a lightened (500 lbs) '95 M/T SC300 and a '98 SC400, and other than the enjoyment of shifting manually, I can't say there was a huge difference in performance between the two. That's with the latter held back by a slush box and extra weight. The vvti 1UZ is just a much better engine, stock vs stock. The 2JZ's advantage is in upgrade paths, which doesn't sound like what you would be wanting, anyway.

 

I didn't realize it was a 2000 SC4 either. Those are definitely rare and in a really good condition its a good buy. I love my 99 and plan to keep it forever but t2d2 is right about the trans being the major point of loss of performance on these cars. It does shift super smooth though!

 

The A650E 5-speed is definitely a "cruiser" style transmission but it's a big improvement over the 4-speed automatic in previous model years. I'm used to the same driveline combination in my '99 LS400 (including the 3.26:1 final drive ratio) and I always enjoy the power and smoothness it gives.

My personal preference is a manual transmission but the two drivetrain styles are excellent in each their own ways for different reasons. Lexus really got it right when they engineered the '98-'00 SC400, '99-'00 LS400 and '98-'04 GS400/GS430. It's just the right amount of power in stock form. It's near perfect in a completely different way. That sublime drivetrain combination in an SC chassis and the very low production numbers makes it an excellent choice and keeper! It will serve and bring smiles behind the wheel for years and years!

Plus, it's impossible not to love the sound of a powerful V8