Could it be.....Turbo?!
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,205
Likes: 1
From: Ohio
Wiz...
I'm convinced that the going open loop is the way to go. The stock fuel maps are pretty good. The fuel maps are still sensitive to temperature input and maf input, and will obey a knock signal (timing retard), so there will be SOME learning, it just won't be adjusting the fuel map via the 02 sensor input.
Some more devices for modifying the MAF values:
www.splitsec.com
On the Vitek clutch... I've heard they're good, but not much news. Just stay away from RPS, they really suck. I'd suggest Jeff's old Clutchmasters dual diaphragm setup or similar.
On the O2 values for the S-AFC, I'm pretty sure that if you're running open loop, the S-AFC can tune your curve for both high and low settings.
On the boost/duty... You can't boost under your waste gate spring value anyways. So if you have a 5lb spring, you should never be able to get less than .3 bar.
The AVC-R has an off setting on the first menu tree of monitor/setting. arrow down to setting, select right button for A/B curve and select left arrow for Off. You can then monitor what your waste gate spring is holding as far as boost is concerned.
In the AVC-R manual somewhere it said that you want a spring value so that when you achieve desired boost, say 1 bar, your duty is no more than 70%, if not, change the spring. I think duty will change depending on the spring you choose.
Jeff.... You'll hit 500rwhp next time if you can get it lean enough.
Adding race gas and not gaining HP is a sure sign that you're either too rich or don't have enough timing advance or not running high enough boost... I wanna see you dial that baby up to 25psi on the race gas.
Wolfy....
The sprung disk simply has springs that mount the hub to the actual disk. It ends up saving your transmission from the shock and is supposed to reduce chatter a little. If the sprung disk is an option, take it. Only downside is that I've heard of people breaking the spring on the disk, which can cause problems... I'd try the Vitek.. It can't be any worse than any of the other lame clutches for this tranny.
I'm convinced that the going open loop is the way to go. The stock fuel maps are pretty good. The fuel maps are still sensitive to temperature input and maf input, and will obey a knock signal (timing retard), so there will be SOME learning, it just won't be adjusting the fuel map via the 02 sensor input.
Some more devices for modifying the MAF values:
www.splitsec.com
On the Vitek clutch... I've heard they're good, but not much news. Just stay away from RPS, they really suck. I'd suggest Jeff's old Clutchmasters dual diaphragm setup or similar.
On the O2 values for the S-AFC, I'm pretty sure that if you're running open loop, the S-AFC can tune your curve for both high and low settings.
On the boost/duty... You can't boost under your waste gate spring value anyways. So if you have a 5lb spring, you should never be able to get less than .3 bar.
The AVC-R has an off setting on the first menu tree of monitor/setting. arrow down to setting, select right button for A/B curve and select left arrow for Off. You can then monitor what your waste gate spring is holding as far as boost is concerned.
In the AVC-R manual somewhere it said that you want a spring value so that when you achieve desired boost, say 1 bar, your duty is no more than 70%, if not, change the spring. I think duty will change depending on the spring you choose.
Jeff.... You'll hit 500rwhp next time if you can get it lean enough.
Adding race gas and not gaining HP is a sure sign that you're either too rich or don't have enough timing advance or not running high enough boost... I wanna see you dial that baby up to 25psi on the race gas.
Wolfy....
The sprung disk simply has springs that mount the hub to the actual disk. It ends up saving your transmission from the shock and is supposed to reduce chatter a little. If the sprung disk is an option, take it. Only downside is that I've heard of people breaking the spring on the disk, which can cause problems... I'd try the Vitek.. It can't be any worse than any of the other lame clutches for this tranny.
Thread Starter
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 1
From: Florida
Cool! Thanks for the input....I'm heading out there now to start messing with the O2 sensor and see what happens. I just hope the sensor doesn't HAVE to be hooked to the ECU to readout voltage. I wonder where it would get + voltage from? It makes it from the exhaust heat?! I don't know the inner workings of an O2 sensor....I guess I'll hafta find out!
SR
SR
yo Jeff, how do you think it will perform at 18psi on pump gas while running with the correct mixture? with no NOS
There's a clutch place here in town that is supposed to do good work for really good prices... they build clutches for the high-torque V8 cars so I'm pretty sure I could get something set up...
i got more questions too:
if i ran stock compression on my turbo kit until i got a VPC, could i run a NOS shot on top of that? because i'm about to get a NOS kit anyway, i was wondering if i could get away with 7psi on a 60-1 and a 75-100 shot of NOS... someone told me something about the engine comrpession getting jacked up because of it; but i've never heard of that before
anyone heard anything about the cams? i'd like to run 264/264...
And last question is, since the redline will need to be bumped up some because of the turbo, how in the hell do we do that on our car without getting a haltech or something? because i'm really going to want to raise the redline when i get cams in
thx
There's a clutch place here in town that is supposed to do good work for really good prices... they build clutches for the high-torque V8 cars so I'm pretty sure I could get something set up...
i got more questions too:
if i ran stock compression on my turbo kit until i got a VPC, could i run a NOS shot on top of that? because i'm about to get a NOS kit anyway, i was wondering if i could get away with 7psi on a 60-1 and a 75-100 shot of NOS... someone told me something about the engine comrpession getting jacked up because of it; but i've never heard of that before
anyone heard anything about the cams? i'd like to run 264/264...
And last question is, since the redline will need to be bumped up some because of the turbo, how in the hell do we do that on our car without getting a haltech or something? because i'm really going to want to raise the redline when i get cams in
thx
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,879
Likes: 4
From: Kaliforniastan
Lexus Champion
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,506
Likes: 26
From: Mississippi
Psssst>>> Vrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmm
I just wanted to say... YOU LUCKY BASTARD!!! You are my "HERO":eek:
What's the dyno and 1/4 times looking like? Is the driveability still Lexus smooth(This ?? is for any of you "turbo" guys)?
Buckle up and take now prisoners!!!
What's the dyno and 1/4 times looking like? Is the driveability still Lexus smooth(This ?? is for any of you "turbo" guys)?
Buckle up and take now prisoners!!!
Thread Starter
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 1
From: Florida
Ok....Oxygen sensor: Once an oxygen sensor heats up (must be 350deg C or higher usually), as the exhaust gasses hit the sensor inside the exhaust, oxygen is drawn through it (sensor) from the OUTSIDE air. This process creates a VERY low electrical charge, but one that is very precise as it's a chemical reaction. The voltage can range from 0 of course up to about 1.6v. Rarely does it get above 1.1v, it would have to be a VERY rich mixture to go above that, and would likely be backfiring and running BADLY.
Scott...I took your advice and I'm running without the sensor wired to the computer. What a difference! It's much better having the a/f gauge sit mostly constant instead of the computer screwing with the fuel maps for better economy. I read that you can save up to $100 a year in fuel savings by having the oxygen sensor in there. Well I'll just call that a $100 a year mod for more power.
My ratios are staying WELL into the rich side constantly now. I even forgot to change my S-AFC settings at first, and was getting readings of 1.14v. If course it was running a little rough. lol
Now onto the next question. I turned the AVC-R off, and ran the car. .82 (12psi?) on the first run. WTF?! This is supposedly a 5lb spring!! I disconnected the solenoid, and the vacuum hoses. .86 (12psi) again. Well it's not the AVC-R!! What could be the problem? The spring is a VERY weak feeling spring. The wastegate opens early and is plenty loud. Maybe it just can't let ENOUGH gasses by to keep the pressure that low? I'm scared to try 6 - 6500 rpms....I was at .86 boost at 5500rpms.... and last time it went up FAST from there.
Any opinions on this?
Thanks in advance! Oh ya...thank god for this 40deg air here today....running 12pounds in this temp is NO problem.
SR
Scott...I took your advice and I'm running without the sensor wired to the computer. What a difference! It's much better having the a/f gauge sit mostly constant instead of the computer screwing with the fuel maps for better economy. I read that you can save up to $100 a year in fuel savings by having the oxygen sensor in there. Well I'll just call that a $100 a year mod for more power.
My ratios are staying WELL into the rich side constantly now. I even forgot to change my S-AFC settings at first, and was getting readings of 1.14v. If course it was running a little rough. lol
Now onto the next question. I turned the AVC-R off, and ran the car. .82 (12psi?) on the first run. WTF?! This is supposedly a 5lb spring!! I disconnected the solenoid, and the vacuum hoses. .86 (12psi) again. Well it's not the AVC-R!! What could be the problem? The spring is a VERY weak feeling spring. The wastegate opens early and is plenty loud. Maybe it just can't let ENOUGH gasses by to keep the pressure that low? I'm scared to try 6 - 6500 rpms....I was at .86 boost at 5500rpms.... and last time it went up FAST from there.
Any opinions on this?
Thanks in advance! Oh ya...thank god for this 40deg air here today....running 12pounds in this temp is NO problem.
SR
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,205
Likes: 1
From: Ohio
Weaker springs are lower PSI a 5lb spring is a lot "weaker" feeling than a 10lb spring.
I believe the springs are color coded for psi. Do you have a Turbonetics delta gate? Could you have the vacuum ports wrong on the wastegate? I don't remember which lines go where right off hand, but you've got to get good low stable boost from just the waste gate before you go altering everything else.
Once you get into modifying the MAF signal, the stock ECU maps will run your mixture steady and lean at low throttle, and back to rich when you get on it. I got 25-26mpg on the highway with the 02 sensor signal removed from the ECU. It just gives the user more control over the mixture. Without the mixture swinging lean/rich constantly, you can run an overall leaner mixture without any hesitation, stuttering, and still get better economy---I know first hand!
Funny, I can't run a constant 12psi in cold weather on pump gas, (although I may hit 13 psi at 6500rpm.) I typically will run .7 bar (10psi) at 3000-5000rpm.
I believe the springs are color coded for psi. Do you have a Turbonetics delta gate? Could you have the vacuum ports wrong on the wastegate? I don't remember which lines go where right off hand, but you've got to get good low stable boost from just the waste gate before you go altering everything else.
Once you get into modifying the MAF signal, the stock ECU maps will run your mixture steady and lean at low throttle, and back to rich when you get on it. I got 25-26mpg on the highway with the 02 sensor signal removed from the ECU. It just gives the user more control over the mixture. Without the mixture swinging lean/rich constantly, you can run an overall leaner mixture without any hesitation, stuttering, and still get better economy---I know first hand!
Funny, I can't run a constant 12psi in cold weather on pump gas, (although I may hit 13 psi at 6500rpm.) I typically will run .7 bar (10psi) at 3000-5000rpm.
Last edited by SC300T; Oct 27, 2001 at 11:19 AM.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,205
Likes: 1
From: Ohio
The built in rev-limiter is a function of the ECU, and to my knowledge the only way to remove the limiter is to go stand alone (Haltech), or hack into it a la G-FORCE ECU upgrade. On these ECUs, its not just a reprogram of the E-PROM, G-Force has to manually solder chips on the board to facilitate the upgrade. IMO they still charge way too much for the upgrade.
As far as NOS and stock compression is concerned, 7psi and 70 shot would work fine together with a little timing retard. You just have to make sure that you don't go lean and that you have enough fuel.
I was thinking of adding 75-100 shot NOS to my setup. I've got to be careful, though as I'd be near the limit of my current fuel system. Ideally, you'd want some kind of progressive NOS on these to avoid extra strain on the tranny. Perhaps more important, make sure that the NOS is programmed to cut off before the REV limiter or you'll be in deep ****. With a turbo and extra injectors, aux injection controller, the mixture would probably lean out enough just enough to damage the engine if the NOS is flowing at the time. That same thing goes to any of those with N/A - T SC300s, avoid the limiter at all times, it cuts fuel, which leans and detonates. A better way is to have an MSD box that cuts spark right before the ECUs fuel cut, that way you won't have a volatile lean mixture.
BTW... I'm prepping my car for round #2 of me v.s. 2000 WS6 with 175 shot of NOS tonight (highway roll), should be fun. I got him the first time out, but he said he's got a few surprises for me. We'll see.
As far as NOS and stock compression is concerned, 7psi and 70 shot would work fine together with a little timing retard. You just have to make sure that you don't go lean and that you have enough fuel.
I was thinking of adding 75-100 shot NOS to my setup. I've got to be careful, though as I'd be near the limit of my current fuel system. Ideally, you'd want some kind of progressive NOS on these to avoid extra strain on the tranny. Perhaps more important, make sure that the NOS is programmed to cut off before the REV limiter or you'll be in deep ****. With a turbo and extra injectors, aux injection controller, the mixture would probably lean out enough just enough to damage the engine if the NOS is flowing at the time. That same thing goes to any of those with N/A - T SC300s, avoid the limiter at all times, it cuts fuel, which leans and detonates. A better way is to have an MSD box that cuts spark right before the ECUs fuel cut, that way you won't have a volatile lean mixture.
BTW... I'm prepping my car for round #2 of me v.s. 2000 WS6 with 175 shot of NOS tonight (highway roll), should be fun. I got him the first time out, but he said he's got a few surprises for me. We'll see.
just a quick note...im here with a supr ameet so i been real busy..about to go out to dinner with em....
dynoed today..537rwhp and 524 rwtq...im super happy..
a toyomoto supra ran 777 rwhp through an auto tranny with stock pistons rods...crank and stock cams...amazing......Jeff
dynoed today..537rwhp and 524 rwtq...im super happy..
a toyomoto supra ran 777 rwhp through an auto tranny with stock pistons rods...crank and stock cams...amazing......Jeff
Driver
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
From: Texas
hey guys... been troubleshooting my car... wanted to run some ideas through yall... anyway... the car hestitates and stutters like crazy... my EGTs are running lean... if we reset everything the car will run great for like 20 mins before, well what seems like, the ECU adapts itself to run ****ty again... in some cases a lean code will pop on the check engine light. I have an S-AFC in the car which seemed to work perfect when we first put the kit on but now it just doesnt seem to work... right now the S-AFC and the AVC-R i have are both disconnected... talked to Alex, owner of SP Engineering in California, and he mentioned a couple scenarios that might be bad...
(1) Bad MAF - if this is the case, it may explain why my AFC stopped working
(2) Fuel Pressure Is Off - I have a APEXi Fuel Pressure Gauge ive been lazy to install... Jeff... where did you tap the fuel system to read fuel presssure?
Not sure... I wanted to see if you guys had any ideas. It's really pissing me off... the car used to run pretty strong to now where its running like ****. I'll keep you guys posted on whats going on.
ComputerWiz... glad to hear you like the turbo... now go out there and get some road kills
Jeff... congrats on the great numbers
cheers,
Brian
'92 Turbo Veilside RSP SC300
{
Team Koncept Racing
Hyper Racing
Team Toyo
Valvoline
APR Performance
}
(1) Bad MAF - if this is the case, it may explain why my AFC stopped working
(2) Fuel Pressure Is Off - I have a APEXi Fuel Pressure Gauge ive been lazy to install... Jeff... where did you tap the fuel system to read fuel presssure?
Not sure... I wanted to see if you guys had any ideas. It's really pissing me off... the car used to run pretty strong to now where its running like ****. I'll keep you guys posted on whats going on.
ComputerWiz... glad to hear you like the turbo... now go out there and get some road kills
Jeff... congrats on the great numbers
cheers,
Brian
'92 Turbo Veilside RSP SC300
{
Team Koncept Racing
Hyper Racing
Team Toyo
Valvoline
APR Performance
}
Last edited by VeilsideRSPsc; Oct 27, 2001 at 05:25 PM.
Pole Position
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
From: diamond ba
hey compwiz,
when you are ready to order your clutch, let me know, we can order them togethor and maybe save a little money?? hopefully. Where are you from again??
by the way. you think its possible to get a turbo on the car in one day?
Arthur
when you are ready to order your clutch, let me know, we can order them togethor and maybe save a little money?? hopefully. Where are you from again??
by the way. you think its possible to get a turbo on the car in one day?
Arthur
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Intercooler...
Just wondering if you are going to keep that small intercooler in the side duct? Cos Soarers in Aus usually find that the intercooler location/size and the way the air flows is extremely in-efficient and some free hp is there to gain from a large FMIC (Front Mount InterCooler) as well as longevity when it heats up to 38 deg heat waves in Australia. With the stockie intercooler at the location you have your one mounted, I find that it becomes extremely in-efficient after about 15-30 mins of hard hill climbing, and at the top I usually need to open the bonnet to release all the hot air etc to regain some performance.
Custom FMIC are expensive here at AUS $1300 where they build it to completely fill your front bumper, but I've heard people take coolers off trucks (any small truck will do) which are petrol turbo for AUS$300 and whack them on. Then upgrade to a custom one when they get more cash as putting the truck core on will already have the front piping done.
Just something to think about.
Also having the intercooler in that location stops me using that hole for a big *** cold air induction unit... pipe the pod filter into the gap where the intercooler is...
Toan
Custom FMIC are expensive here at AUS $1300 where they build it to completely fill your front bumper, but I've heard people take coolers off trucks (any small truck will do) which are petrol turbo for AUS$300 and whack them on. Then upgrade to a custom one when they get more cash as putting the truck core on will already have the front piping done.
Just something to think about.
Also having the intercooler in that location stops me using that hole for a big *** cold air induction unit... pipe the pod filter into the gap where the intercooler is...
Toan
Last edited by Toan Nguyen; Oct 28, 2001 at 11:00 AM.
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMNNN
holy hell Jeff thats the best news i heard all week!!!
SC300T:
I'm planning on getting a Apexi' ITC to retard my ignition... so if i bumped back the ignition some with the NOS it'd be ok?
how many degrees do you think? and at what rpm? after 4500 ya think?
holy hell Jeff thats the best news i heard all week!!!
SC300T:
I'm planning on getting a Apexi' ITC to retard my ignition... so if i bumped back the ignition some with the NOS it'd be ok?
how many degrees do you think? and at what rpm? after 4500 ya think?