Navigation, are most buying?
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 17
Likes: 2
From: AL
I didn't get Navi, didn't feel it was worth the extra costs. I have the Premium package and it has the connected navi so all you do is download the Scout GPS app and bam....navigation on the screen. I'm like most and use my phone GPS most of the time but I do like having guided navigation on the display and you can have that without purchasing the navigation system.
Pit Crew
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 103
Likes: 19
From: ON
Even though automobile navigation systems are an overpriced option, they return a larger percentage of their initial cost at resale or trade-in time than most other options, and that is especially true for luxury brand cars, including Lexus.
There is a person who is a used car manager at a Lexus dealership and who has posted here at CL. He has said, in his posts, that Lexus used car buyers typically expect to buy a vehicle with a navigation system and that used Lexus vehicles with navigation on his lot are likely to sell quickly. On the other hand, he has said that, cars without navigation sit on his lot for extended periods of time until either he dramatically lowers the price or ends up selling them for a lower price at auction. Thus, he has said, when he values a trade-in without navigation, he immediately drastically discounts his trade-in offer to take into account how much harder it is going to be to sell the car. Further, when potential buyers realize that they can buy a brand new Buick, Toyota, etc. that is fully loaded, including navigation, for less money than it would cost them to buy a used Lexus without navigation, many will decide to buy the fully loaded Buick or Toyota.
In the last 20 years, I've bought 8 or 9 cars. Only one did not have navigation, and, as soon as I bought it, I regretted the fact that it lacked navigation. Even if I don't often need turn-by-turn guidance, I've come to value having a map with a large screen in an easy-to-view location readily available at all times and that I can use to check to see what street/road is coming up, where I am in relation to my destination, etc. I know that I will never again consider buying a car, new or used, without navigation.
While the Generation 9 navigation system on the 2016-2017 RX is far from perfect, I have found that it is a vast improvement over earlier generation Lexus navigation systems. If you take the time to read the manual and to properly use voice commands, the system works very well with using voice commands to enter destinations. And it works even better if you take the couple of minutes needed to use the mode that trains the system to be able to recognize your voice.
There is a person who is a used car manager at a Lexus dealership and who has posted here at CL. He has said, in his posts, that Lexus used car buyers typically expect to buy a vehicle with a navigation system and that used Lexus vehicles with navigation on his lot are likely to sell quickly. On the other hand, he has said that, cars without navigation sit on his lot for extended periods of time until either he dramatically lowers the price or ends up selling them for a lower price at auction. Thus, he has said, when he values a trade-in without navigation, he immediately drastically discounts his trade-in offer to take into account how much harder it is going to be to sell the car. Further, when potential buyers realize that they can buy a brand new Buick, Toyota, etc. that is fully loaded, including navigation, for less money than it would cost them to buy a used Lexus without navigation, many will decide to buy the fully loaded Buick or Toyota.
In the last 20 years, I've bought 8 or 9 cars. Only one did not have navigation, and, as soon as I bought it, I regretted the fact that it lacked navigation. Even if I don't often need turn-by-turn guidance, I've come to value having a map with a large screen in an easy-to-view location readily available at all times and that I can use to check to see what street/road is coming up, where I am in relation to my destination, etc. I know that I will never again consider buying a car, new or used, without navigation.
While the Generation 9 navigation system on the 2016-2017 RX is far from perfect, I have found that it is a vast improvement over earlier generation Lexus navigation systems. If you take the time to read the manual and to properly use voice commands, the system works very well with using voice commands to enter destinations. And it works even better if you take the couple of minutes needed to use the mode that trains the system to be able to recognize your voice.
This was true like 10 years ago. (when people did not use their smart phone for navigation)
Now, an educated buyer does not pay more for a used car (3-5) years old with navigation. because of two reasons:
1- nowadays vast majority of people use their phone and google map
2- most used car navigation is not updated and has old map (3-5) years
if a buyer is not educated it is different story.
But I cannot imagine if there are two used cars exactly the same and the price of the one with navigation is $2000 higher, then buyer get higher priced with navigation.
but if they sell it for same price buyer would pick the one with navigation.
bottom line, if you buy a new car with navigation, do not expect to get your extra money back (for navigation) when you sell your car down the road. you may only sell you car few days sooner.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,279
Likes: 1,034
From: Illinois
I cannot agree with you.
This was true like 10 years ago. (when people did not use their smart phone for navigation)
Now, an educated buyer does not pay more for a used car (3-5) years old with navigation. because of two reasons:
1- nowadays vast majority of people use their phone and google map
2- most used car navigation is not updated and has old map (3-5) years
if a buyer is not educated it is different story.
But I cannot imagine if there are two used cars exactly the same and the price of the one with navigation is $2000 higher, then buyer get higher priced with navigation.
but if they sell it for same price buyer would pick the one with navigation.
bottom line, if you buy a new car with navigation, do not expect to get your extra money back (for navigation) when you sell your car down the road. you may only sell you car few days sooner.
This was true like 10 years ago. (when people did not use their smart phone for navigation)
Now, an educated buyer does not pay more for a used car (3-5) years old with navigation. because of two reasons:
1- nowadays vast majority of people use their phone and google map
2- most used car navigation is not updated and has old map (3-5) years
if a buyer is not educated it is different story.
But I cannot imagine if there are two used cars exactly the same and the price of the one with navigation is $2000 higher, then buyer get higher priced with navigation.
but if they sell it for same price buyer would pick the one with navigation.
bottom line, if you buy a new car with navigation, do not expect to get your extra money back (for navigation) when you sell your car down the road. you may only sell you car few days sooner.
While I'll freely admit that the navigation programs of phone apps have frequently updated data bases, with Lexus navigation systems, instead of using the data base on the SD card in the car, you can use the system with the free Enform Destination Assist app, and the data base for that app, like with phone apps, is also continuously updated. Further, a large number of buyers do value having a large screen continuously available and in an easy-to-view location, and that is especially true with luxury brands. As long as some percentage of buyers will not even consider buying a Lexus without navigation, that means lower demand for non-navigation cars, and that translates into lower resale or trade-in value for those cars.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,560
Likes: 3,398
From: NJ
I cannot agree with you.
This was true like 10 years ago. (when people did not use their smart phone for navigation)
Now, an educated buyer does not pay more for a used car (3-5) years old with navigation. because of two reasons:
1- nowadays vast majority of people use their phone and google map
2- most used car navigation is not updated and has old map (3-5) years
if a buyer is not educated it is different story.
But I cannot imagine if there are two used cars exactly the same and the price of the one with navigation is $2000 higher, then buyer get higher priced with navigation.
but if they sell it for same price buyer would pick the one with navigation.
bottom line, if you buy a new car with navigation, do not expect to get your extra money back (for navigation) when you sell your car down the road. you may only sell you car few days sooner.
This was true like 10 years ago. (when people did not use their smart phone for navigation)
Now, an educated buyer does not pay more for a used car (3-5) years old with navigation. because of two reasons:
1- nowadays vast majority of people use their phone and google map
2- most used car navigation is not updated and has old map (3-5) years
if a buyer is not educated it is different story.
But I cannot imagine if there are two used cars exactly the same and the price of the one with navigation is $2000 higher, then buyer get higher priced with navigation.
but if they sell it for same price buyer would pick the one with navigation.
bottom line, if you buy a new car with navigation, do not expect to get your extra money back (for navigation) when you sell your car down the road. you may only sell you car few days sooner.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,279
Likes: 1,034
From: Illinois
My point is not that one should buy a car with navigation "just for resale considerations". Instead it is that, even though navigation systems are an expensive option, because much of that initial cost comes back at resale or trade-in time, the true net cost of getting a navigation system is quite minimal, and, for many, that minimal added cost is more than well worth it for, if nothing else, being able to have a big and easy to read map available at all times.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 432
Likes: 114
From: NorCal
As I read it, the OP was asking if buyers actually used or liked the navigation system and if he would ever grow to like it, he already bought it for all the additional benefits. He never asked if he would get his money back at the time of sale, possibly because he is leasing the car or plans to keep it for 8 years or more.<br />I tried the navi once. I live just north of San Francisco and I was traveling south toward Los Angeles. There are 2 ways to get there, route 5 or 101. I wanted to go down the more scenic rt. 101. The system suggested rt. 5 but said there were 2 alternate routes, rt. 5 or rt.5. I headed down 101 and the navi tried numerous times to get me to over to 5. "41 miles" later the navi figured I was serious and started giving the directions via 101.<br />In my cell I would say "19320 1st st. ojai directions" and in less than 10 seconds I could push the start button and would immediately be getting voice directions and all this on the fly. If I took the alternate route (6 minutes longer) the system would quickly adjust.<br />That leaves my 12.3" available for music and climate. 98% of my time in the car I know where I'm going and don't need navi to give me info like what exit, cross streets, etc. so I never use the map screen.<br />And as always YMMV.
Pit Crew
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 103
Likes: 19
From: ON
I would ask myself if I want to buy inferior technology (Lexus navigation) compared to Google map (free sort of) with high price tag?
Even a $150 Garmin is better than Lexus navigation.
As for having map all the time, there is a decent 7" Garmin you can attache to windshield.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/55.../010-01681-02#
Also 12.3" display is somehow misleading. standard aspect ratio for display is 16:9, giving that Lexus display is stretched too much, I would say the display area is around 10" compared to other cars. even compare it with 3rd gen.
lexus.
I do agree it looks nicer to have it compare to using your phone or Garmin but again it is older technology with high price.
I could swallow the price because i am already looking for a luxury car !!!! but getting something with inferior technology keeps me thinking.
Even a $150 Garmin is better than Lexus navigation.
As for having map all the time, there is a decent 7" Garmin you can attache to windshield.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/55.../010-01681-02#
Also 12.3" display is somehow misleading. standard aspect ratio for display is 16:9, giving that Lexus display is stretched too much, I would say the display area is around 10" compared to other cars. even compare it with 3rd gen.
lexus.
I do agree it looks nicer to have it compare to using your phone or Garmin but again it is older technology with high price.
I could swallow the price because i am already looking for a luxury car !!!! but getting something with inferior technology keeps me thinking.
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Advanced
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 613
Likes: 86
From: Quebec, Canada
I would ask myself if I want to buy inferior technology (Lexus navigation) compared to Google map (free sort of) with high price tag?
Even a $150 Garmin is better than Lexus navigation.
As for having map all the time, there is a decent 7" Garmin you can attache to windshield.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/55.../010-01681-02#
Also 12.3" display is somehow misleading. standard aspect ratio for display is 16:9, giving that Lexus display is stretched too much, I would say the display area is around 10" compared to other cars. even compare it with 3rd gen.
lexus.
I do agree it looks nicer to have it compare to using your phone or Garmin but again it is older technology with high price.
I could swallow the price because i am already looking for a luxury car !!!! but getting something with inferior technology keeps me thinking.
Even a $150 Garmin is better than Lexus navigation.
As for having map all the time, there is a decent 7" Garmin you can attache to windshield.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/55.../010-01681-02#
Also 12.3" display is somehow misleading. standard aspect ratio for display is 16:9, giving that Lexus display is stretched too much, I would say the display area is around 10" compared to other cars. even compare it with 3rd gen.
lexus.
I do agree it looks nicer to have it compare to using your phone or Garmin but again it is older technology with high price.
I could swallow the price because i am already looking for a luxury car !!!! but getting something with inferior technology keeps me thinking.
I chose the luxury package for the LED headlights, 20" wheels and leather seats. But I agree that it is not the best navigation system out there. I do use my Garmin for long trips (useful for the trafic info as well, which we don't get in Canada from HD radio, but Garmin does from FM radio). But I do prefer to have the large screen than the small 8". It's a nice ratio for split screen and most of the time the large portion is set to the radio and the right one for the climate controle. But the navigation system is nice to have anyway when looking for nearby streets.
Pole Position
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 301
Likes: 32
From: AL
I started using GPS before smart phone was even introduced (anyone remember Palm Pilot?). And I have been using my phone as GPS for many years. I too believe phone's GPS apps are better and cheaper (I have 3 GPS navigation apps installed on my phone all with offline maps).
I bought my RX with GPS because of the 12" screen and better audio. I figured out most of the features without reading the manual. Now I am using RX' navigation exclusively. I do not need to mess up with the car mount (I have all kinds of mount from windshield to CD slot) and power cable. Plus vehicle's build-in navigation has some features that a phone based GPS will not have. e.g. when gas is low, it will list the gas station nearby.
I bought my RX with GPS because of the 12" screen and better audio. I figured out most of the features without reading the manual. Now I am using RX' navigation exclusively. I do not need to mess up with the car mount (I have all kinds of mount from windshield to CD slot) and power cable. Plus vehicle's build-in navigation has some features that a phone based GPS will not have. e.g. when gas is low, it will list the gas station nearby.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,279
Likes: 1,034
From: Illinois
Just yesterday, I needed to get directions to a restaurant that I was going to for the first time. While I was driving, I was able easily to get the directions and to have them entered into the navigation system with minimal distraction from my driving. I first used the mouse to open the Enform App Suite and the Destination Assist app. I then pressed the voice command button on the steering wheel and spoke the name of the restaurant. Within seconds, the system found the restaurant, and, on the navigation screen, I was prompted to confirm that that was the restaurant that I was looking for. After I confirmed, the directions for getting to the restaurant were immediately entered into the navigation system with one more click of the mouse, and those directions took me directly to the destination.
For me, having all of that capability integrated into one system makes it a valuable tool and one whose functionality is far superior to having to mess with a phone and to follow directions with a map that appears on the small screen of the phone, and it is a bonus to know that I don't have to worry about using my too much data from my cell phone data plan.
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 613
Likes: 86
From: Quebec, Canada
Well stated.
Just yesterday, I needed to get directions to a restaurant that I was going to for the first time. While I was driving, I was able easily to get the directions and to have them entered into the navigation system with minimal distraction from my driving. I first used the mouse to open the Enform App Suite and the Destination Assist app. I then pressed the voice command button on the steering wheel and spoke the name of the restaurant. Within seconds, the system found the restaurant, and, on the navigation screen, I was prompted to confirm that that was the restaurant that I was looking for. After I confirmed, the directions for getting to the restaurant were immediately entered into the navigation system with one more click of the mouse, and those directions took me directly to the destination.
For me, having all of that capability integrated into one system makes it a valuable tool and one whose functionality is far superior to having to mess with a phone and to follow directions with a map that appears on the small screen of the phone, and it is a bonus to know that I don't have to worry about using my too much data from my cell phone data plan.
Just yesterday, I needed to get directions to a restaurant that I was going to for the first time. While I was driving, I was able easily to get the directions and to have them entered into the navigation system with minimal distraction from my driving. I first used the mouse to open the Enform App Suite and the Destination Assist app. I then pressed the voice command button on the steering wheel and spoke the name of the restaurant. Within seconds, the system found the restaurant, and, on the navigation screen, I was prompted to confirm that that was the restaurant that I was looking for. After I confirmed, the directions for getting to the restaurant were immediately entered into the navigation system with one more click of the mouse, and those directions took me directly to the destination.
For me, having all of that capability integrated into one system makes it a valuable tool and one whose functionality is far superior to having to mess with a phone and to follow directions with a map that appears on the small screen of the phone, and it is a bonus to know that I don't have to worry about using my too much data from my cell phone data plan.
I guess it was designed to be more complete using enform... but enform is not available everywhere!
Pit Crew
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 103
Likes: 19
From: ON
Pole Position
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 301
Likes: 32
From: AL
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,279
Likes: 1,034
From: Illinois
No, the Enform App Suite, including Destination Search is completely free forever. What requires a paid subscription is the packages of services that includes Enform Remote, Live Concierge Service, Service Connect, and the SOS service.
Last edited by lesz; Sep 1, 2017 at 03:08 PM.