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I assume you're referring to the 2003 SACD release of Dark Side of the Moon. This is a "hybrid" disc, meaning that it has a standard Red Book CD layer in addition to the SACD layer. According to the 2020 RX Multimedia System manual, it will not play non-hybrid SACDs. So, what you're hearing is the standard two-channel CD layer. Perhaps you have the ML "surround" feature on which, according to the manual, "can create a feeling of presence." It appears that the system is not capable of reproducing true surround formats of any format. Gotta give credit to Lexus/ML though, as many CD players "don't like" hybrid SACDs and won't even play the Red Book layer.
On another note: You might find other releases of DSOTM to be more satisfying than this SACD. Here's an interesting article featuring interviews with the original sound engineer, Alan Parsons and James Guthrie, who did the SACD release.
I forgot about that. I remember my Acura wouldn’t even play homemade CDs of any kind, not alone anything hybrid. That was several years ago & maybe their systems have broadened enough to play homemade CDs & Hybrids. Sometimes really awesome technology falls by the side, much like Quad did. It was more expensive & harder to produce & customers just didn’t clammer to buy it, so there was less profit overall & it died. I think Lexus is one of the few autos that still put a CD player in the dash.
Scrutator: Thanks for the reply. You started me thinking after I read your reply so I just went out in the car with 2 Music DVD's and my Hybrid DSOTM SACD. I do have the ML package and I do have it set on Surround sound as you stated. When you say "It appears that the system is not capable of reproducing true surround formats of any kind", I'm not sure if you are correct or not. When I inserted my DVD "Foreigner, Alive and Rockin", it plays the DVD (Video and Audio) and the screen comes up for me to choose the audio format I want (like in any other DVD player). I had 3 choices: (DTS) which I got no sound from the car, (DD 2.0), which I can hear, and (DD5.1) which sounded way better than the DD2.0. When it started playing I pushed on the touch screen and it said DD 3/2.1 because there is a menu that I can pop up while the disc is playing and it says "Audio" and I can switch between the three choices. I looked up the Foreigner Disk and it says "The first number is "3/2.1" refers to the number of front channels. Second is surround, or rear channels. The ".1" referes to the subwoofer.". Obviously, I don't have a subwoofer but I really think I am hearing true Surround sound but I could be wrong but the 3/2.1 definitely sounds much better.
My manual on page 161 of the MutiMedia Manual of the car says "Audio: This DVD player can play linear PCM, Dolby Digital and MPEG audio format DVDs. Other decoded types cannot be played."
I'm open to any comments about whether or not the ML DVD player is capable of playing Mutichannel Audio because I spent yesterday morning downloading multichannel FLAC files and 5.1 Surround files from the internet to try them out in the car and they played and sounded really great. However, as you said, because I have the Surround feature set to yes it could be because of the higher frequency of the downloaded audio files.
I definitely have yet to hear anything that sounded better than the hybrid SACD I put in there and after looking on the internet I may buy another hybrid SACD disc.
I'm interested in hearing your feedback or anyone else's on this subject. Trying to learn as much as I can about my ML system. Below are the formats it says the ML supports. There are 310 pages for just the Multimedia Manual so I'm reading as much as I can.
What do you mean by “I don’t have a subwoofer”? You most certainly do have one, even on the premium infotainment system. It’s located in the cargo area, on the driver’s side. With the ML unit, there could be another that I’m not aware of, since that system has more speakers.
People that think the ML system is great haven’t heard a good system. I seriously despise my ML system and can’t wait to get a seriously good system in my next vehicle.
People that think the ML system is great haven’t heard a good system. I seriously despise my ML system and can’t wait to get a seriously good system in my next vehicle.
That's what I found out when I bought my 2017 new, I could not justify another $1,200 for the ML system that to my ear was only very marginally better than the standard premium system my car came with.
I'm interested in hearing your feedback or anyone else's on this subject. Trying to learn as much as I can about my ML system. Below are the formats it says the ML supports. There are 310 pages for just the Multimedia Manual so I'm reading as much as I can.
You're most welcome.
Dolby Digital exists in many forms: 2-channel; 5.1 and others. Nowhere in the manual does it state that the ML system will faithfully reproduce Dolby Surround. It may play the 5.1 track on a DVD but the system almost certainly "folds" it back to 2-channel.
Just picked up my 2020 RX350 today. Compared the ML in this vehicle to the highly lauded Panasonic ELS system in the new Acura RDX. ML is much cleaner. The Acura employs ANC (active noise cancellation) that means not only are your speakers playing music but they're also playing signals that are out of phase to road noise being picked up by cabin microphones. I think the ML is extremely clean in the mids and highs (controls all set flat). The bass does not extend extremely low but instead creates an ample amount of midbass which makes it a little too punchy actually.
My solution, like some others on this thread will be to add a 10"-12" sound quality subwoofer that will work in a fairly small (1cu ft) enclosure in the rear cargo area and a class D mono amp that can be hidden under the rear deck or in a rear side panel. I will cross that over fairly low (60Hz or so) to just extend the bottom octave and fill out the sound. I think I will be very happy once I do that. I'm a 59 yr old audiophile and I've never been happy with a factory system but this one is very close.
If you get around to doing this project, many of us less knowledgeable folks would love to see a write up on what equipment you went with, how you installed, and your thoughts on final result.
We have ML in both of our Rx's(GEN 2&3). Looking at a couple of Gen 4's this weekend and the ML option seems to be missing more than it is present.
Really only one question: Is the non ML a significant drop off from the ML version?
My 17 RX had ML, my new 2020 does not. Is there a difference, yes obviously, ML is more refined and has a better bass response. Will it matter to you after driving it for few weeks, nope So unless you are an audiophile with musical hearing, it won't make a difference to you, especially if you are only listening to radio / XM / Phone.
My 17 RX had ML, my new 2020 does not. Is there a difference, yes obviously, ML is more refined and has a better bass response. Will it matter to you after driving it for few weeks, nope So unless you are an audiophile with musical hearing, it won't make a difference to you, especially if you are only listening to radio / XM / Phone.
Does your 2020 have nav (which comes with the upgraded non ML system)?
The 2020 has a new gen head unit, so it should be different from the pre-refresh units. However, I found that even within the same generation, there seems to be quite a big difference in the ML sound.
On my '16 RX350, I found the ML to be really good; but not that much better than the Dirac unit in my old 3 series. Then I moved to the '18 450h, and there was a noticeable improvement in the sound, especially at the lower end. At first I attributed that to maybe the hybrid batteries providing a better buffer for the sub to work with.
Then late last year I got a loaner '19 350 with 17k km on the odo, also with the same ML, and the sound difference was astounding. Not only was the bass as deep as my 450h, but I could've sworn Lexus threw in an extra tweeter in the center console speaker. The clarity especially in the mid to upper high was definitely better. All this with the exact same USB stick housing my 320kbps MP3s, and the same flat settings all around.
Either Lexus is constantly tweaking and improving the speakers/head units as they go along, or else there's just a big variation in the quality of the components that are installed in our cars. Might explain why we have so many different opinions of the ML systems here.
The 2020 ML in the RX450 seems to “gather” bass and transitions into crescendo when called for. I can feel the heaviness. The highs stay separate and distinct, never overwhelmed. Much purer with “surround” and “ASL” off. I often stay beyond reaching my destination. It’s just that good.
The 2020 has a new gen head unit, so it should be different from the pre-refresh units. However, I found that even within the same generation, there seems to be quite a big difference in the ML sound.
On my '16 RX350, I found the ML to be really good; but not that much better than the Dirac unit in my old 3 series. Then I moved to the '18 450h, and there was a noticeable improvement in the sound, especially at the lower end. At first I attributed that to maybe the hybrid batteries providing a better buffer for the sub to work with.
Then late last year I got a loaner '19 350 with 17k km on the odo, also with the same ML, and the sound difference was astounding. Not only was the bass as deep as my 450h, but I could've sworn Lexus threw in an extra tweeter in the center console speaker. The clarity especially in the mid to upper high was definitely better. All this with the exact same USB stick housing my 320kbps MP3s, and the same flat settings all around.
Either Lexus is constantly tweaking and improving the speakers/head units as they go along, or else there's just a big variation in the quality of the components that are installed in our cars. Might explain why we have so many different opinions of the ML systems here.
I lean towards the latter in your statement. There is no consistency between Lexus models & even within the RX, I found that not every system sounded the same when sampled using the same source & connections. I’m not trying to be Debbie Downer, just pointing out there are unexplained differences. I decided to go with the Premium system, since I experienced less variation in various models vs. the ML. All are good systems, but I do not believe Lexus has been steadily tweaking them, excluding the new Apple CarPlay. I was told recently by my dealer, that they have been demanding that Lexus update units back to 2016 to except Apple CarPlay. No guarantee, but they said Lexus was very receptive to their feedback. I doubt I purchase anything without it today. I certainly would not choose navigation, if I had a choice again. It’s extremely outdated & nearly worthless.
So unless you are an audiophile with musical hearing, it won't make a difference to you, especially if you are only listening to radio / XM / Phone.
