I read that the proprietary additives are added at the terminal to the tank truck prior to making the delivery. That most of the fuels are the same coming from the tank storage farms where stuff from different refineries has been mixed during pipe transport and storage.

Look at this link from which the statement below was copied: http://blogs.platts.com/2010/08/23/unbranded_vs_br/

What partially sets apart branded versus unbranded gasoline is the detergent or additive package that is injected into the gasoline before it heads to the branded station, claiming to aid in automobile performance.

 

This has a good explanation of Top Tier gasoline http://www.clark.com/top-tier-fuel-detergent-gas

 

Clutchless, you're right about the extra additives. When I was selling them, it was the transfer terminals where the biggest accounts were held and they were viciously contested and fought for by competing additive suppliers. That being said, the endpoint destinations (station owners) who were paying for the extra treatment would have the additive injected from a standalone additive system as the fuel was being loaded into the tanker trucks.

 

A few non- relevant posts have been removed. Please keep the comments constructive and refrain from making personal remarks. Thank you.

 

Pete,

Your interest in, and knowledge of, fuels and lubricants is impressive. Does it interface with your career, or is it just a hobby? I had come across the CR article before, and it has a lot of good info in it.

I can only research these topics to a certain point until I feel like I am in over my head, or splitting hairs, and generally not getting anywhere. The subject of octane choices comes us so often you would think there would be a definitive, single answer, but there is not. I guess it is a good thing that cars have improved so drastically over the past 40+ years that we now have lengthy discussions on things that don't have tremendous impact.

Thanks for the reads, and the info.

Jim

 

Jim:

You are welcome, and you are too kind... seriously. Any knowledge or experience I have regarding fuels and lubes is derived from a lot of training associated with a short stint representing the lubricant manufacturer and has been tempered by my exposure to lots of "feet on the ground" guys in a Ford diesel forum. My background in chemical engineering and industrial manufacturing has also helped.

 

It is so sad that the moderator's post stated some comments had to be deleted. This subject my far gets the most passion and therefore the most personal attacks. Do what ever you think is right. If you feel you get better performance and or better gas mileage go for it. There is no wrong choice which actually speaks wonders for the answer. I have used 87 and 91 octane in my 2015 RX450h and 2013 ES300H. I have noticed no difference in fuel economy. I have used 87 octane in engines that have recommended premium for over one million miles and never ever had an engine problem. I always revert back to two MIT graduates that are car mechanics who had a syndicated radio show called Car Talk for 35 years.
http://www.cartalk.com/content/premi...egular-0#myth4

From the USA Today:
The only modern engines that should really need premium are those with superchargers, which force-feed fuel into the cylinders. "You're driving along and just tramp the gas and the knock sensor cannot sense the knock fast enough in some cases," because the supercharger boosts pressure so fast, says Bob Furey, chemist and fuels specialist at General Motors.

Burning regular when the owner's manual specifies premium won't void the warranty, nor damage the engine, even the most finicky automakers say. "You're giving up perhaps just a little bit of performance that a customer wouldn't really even notice, it's so slight," says Furey.

 

i have used 87 in my 15 rx. and although it ran (ok) on it, the trans shifted oddly on it and it just seemed like it wasnt performing to its full potential. after switching to mid grad fuel the shifts are much better and the car just simply has more pep to it. if your using 87 octane fuel in yours that is fine, it wont hurt anything. but the car simply does not perform to its full potential on it. i live in a very hilly area and when i use the premium fuel in it, it doesn't even have to down shift to pull the same hills....

 

The above is a perfect example of experience based results, complete with a rational "why". Terrain makes a huge difference in performance for ALL vehicles, regardless of fuel choice, and the premium fuel choices can minimize some of that terrain-effect.

 

thanks pete. and with the ecm`s sensors in the motor detecting detonation amongst lots of other things. the higher octane will give the motor its full advanced timing. like i stated before, use 87 if you want to thats fine. but for me its the higher octane.

 

I have on occasion used "Premium" gas in our 2010 RX350. I never see much, if any difference in performance or mileage verse 87 unleaded. Best test I have had is two 2400+ mile vacation trips form eastern Iowa to Delaware. The first trip I posted the numbers of our trip in another mileage thread. Both trips the over all average was 24 miles per gallon, using 87 octane unleaded. Individual tanks of fuel varied because of terrain and driving conditions. Some tanks we had 26 mpg. In purchasing 100 gallons of fuel and saving $0.50 or more per gallon helped out on expenses for vacation. My 50 cents worth.

 

well i can tell you guys a couple of things i noticed for sure. one being the car definitely has more power on the higher octane. another fact is the transmission shifts gears much smoother on higher octane. also, the fuel millage is better, it burns through the regular like a forest fire.. oh, and one last thing. i contacted lexus corporate re; this topic. i asked them to tell me what i really should be using in it. and i also said dont tell me what you think i may want to hear. tell me what it should be using in it. they came back to me in one word, and i wish i would have saved it. but it said "premium"

 

This is one of the nuttiest comments I have ever read on this forum. Even people who swear they get better performance from the premium admit that it is only a slight improvement in fuel mileage. Oh, and your "transmission shifts gears much smoother"? I bet your radio even plays more clearly,and your brakes stop you sooner, when you use premium. "Burns through regular like a forest fire"...you wouldn't be prone to exaggeration, would you? And, when you call the maker of the vehicle, who also printed the manual which recommends the use of premium, do you really expect them to give you any answer other than "premium"????

This argument has been going on since the '60's. For the past 20 years or so, all new gas-powered vehicles sold in the U.S. are required to run efficiently on regular fuel. Doesn't mean you can't use premium, so knock yourself out. If it works better for you, that is wonderful.

 

Jim,

I wouldn't dismiss the above statement as unbiased. If the engine runs more efficiently, transmission will shift at different points as well. And if it doesn't have to work as hard, it won't be as noisy, making the radio sound crisper, LOL.

On a cross-country trip last Saturday in our RX450h, I ran one tank of 89 instead of 93. As with all previous experiments in the RX, the engine became less responsive and had to work harder to keep up with the terrain and full load. MPG went down to 20, which is about 2-3MPG less than on 93. Filled up with 93 next and it was a night and day difference. It was just like reclaiming a half a liter of displacement.
The only car I owned that didn't care about the fuel grade was a Prius. I happily put 87 in it on those rare occasions called fill-ups.

Of course, I wouldn't try this type of experiment in a super-charged high-compression engine that is in my Audi. I didn't get a tuned vehicle only to get a sub-par performance by running a lower-than-required grade, never mind how well the ECU may be dealing with shifting detonation points as a result.

P.S.
Pete, that was a good read!

 

I agree with you as far as premium gas where it is called for by manufacturer. When I slip in "regular gas" instead of "premium gas " a few times in the past in our LX570, RX450h, and RCF.........my wife KNOWS when she drives each one of them.

The only vehicle where the premium gas works opposite as far as the mpg is concerned is with our CT200h. Suprisingly when I put in premium gas, the CT200H only gets like 28 mpg. On the same routes on regular gas, I get 40+ mpg. During my first year owning the CT200H I consistently put in premium gas hoping for higher mpg, but only got 28mpg. I was almost ready to get ride of the CT200H and get something different. Complained to the Lexus dealer and they told me to try regular gas instead. It worked.