Mobil-1 5W-30 Oil & Mobil 1 M1-102 Oil Filter
06-14-17, 01:04 PM
#31
"What makes high-mileage engine oils different?
High-mileage oils have ingredients to take care of older engines, like conditioners, seal swells, antioxidants, detergents and wear or friction additives. Typically they use a viscosity modifier that is durable and won’t lose viscosity very easily. These oils need to stay thicker longer to protect engine parts.
Over time, anything mechanical—even door handles—begins to loosen. Seals, gaskets and non-metal parts begin to decay as an engine ages. The higher-mileage oils are formulated with seal conditioners that increase flexibility and restore shape, which can help prevent leaks in the long run."
http://www.cenex.com/about/cenex-inf...h-mileage-oils
06-14-17, 01:19 PM
#32
That is what I do, I did not know it's being questioned.
Just because something says it has something and something doing something are completely different. All oils use all of the things you have mentioned, it is nothing new here. You just get better ad packs in the high mileage oils. Don't buy into the marketing stuff they love to put out there.
Meaning that High mileage oil isn't going to do anything more than the regular oil hasn't already done in the first place, it merely has better additives. I have yet to see in any UOA a "high mileage oil" make a significant difference versus oils of higher quality such as Amsoil SS or RLI BioSyn.
Just because something says it has something and something doing something are completely different. All oils use all of the things you have mentioned, it is nothing new here. You just get better ad packs in the high mileage oils. Don't buy into the marketing stuff they love to put out there.
Meaning that High mileage oil isn't going to do anything more than the regular oil hasn't already done in the first place, it merely has better additives. I have yet to see in any UOA a "high mileage oil" make a significant difference versus oils of higher quality such as Amsoil SS or RLI BioSyn.
06-14-17, 01:27 PM
#33
I wasn't questioning, only quoting you.
But since you bring up questioning, how does anyone know that you aren't "marketing?"
If you are suggesting that you know everything on this issue in every part of the motor oil industry, you should probably expect questions.
(And you started with comparing "High mileage oil merely has the additives the regular oil should have had in the first place" and now shift to comparing with "oils of higher quality" Again, not questioning, just quoting you.)
Just because something says it has something and something doing something are completely different. All oils use all of the things you have mentioned, it is nothing new here. You just get better ad packs in the high mileage oils. Don't buy into the marketing stuff they love to put out there.
Meaning that High mileage oil isn't going to do anything more than the regular oil hasn't already done in the first place, it merely has better additives. I have yet to see in any UOA a "high mileage oil" make a significant difference versus oils of higher quality such as Amsoil SS or RLI BioSyn.
(And you started with comparing "High mileage oil merely has the additives the regular oil should have had in the first place" and now shift to comparing with "oils of higher quality" Again, not questioning, just quoting you.)
Last edited by mylexbaby; 06-14-17 at 05:24 PM.
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danielTRLK (06-14-17)
06-14-17, 01:43 PM
#34
Well for one, I have not sold any UOA, oil, filters or anything of the sorts to people on here. I have no affliations to Amsoil, RLI, Exxon, Pennzoil or any other players.
1.) I work for Tribologik and we don't sell anything but UOA 2. You can't buy UOA from Tribologik without being a commercial client.
I don't know everything, but most of this stuff is very basic oil stuff. If you were getting into formulating chemistries I would be lost. I'm open to questions, just sometimes I hate having to repeat certain things and "prove" I work in this field.
High mileage oil has slightly better additive packs in their formula's, that's what you're buying and paying for. I'm starting to get confused as you're quoting me but you're editing the quotes, and I don't understand what you're saying. I'll rephrase if maybe I'm the confusing one.
A "high mileage" oil will have better additives that a "regular" oil, but when compared to higher quality, non-Autozone oils, like Amsoil, RLI, etc. those "high mileage" oils showed no difference in wear and still did not perform as well as those oils do. For example RLI was able to bring down the fuel dilution issue in my sister's Accord (250,000 miles). They had previously been using M1 High Mileage. Not only did ring seal improve and other values did as well, the wear came down substanially, the oil leak she had under the car has also improved by quite a bit but it is still partially there. In her case, it's not worth fixing that car, my dad drove it for years, and then gave it to her.
Meaning you are better off buying a higher quality oil to protect it better than getting a "high mileage" oil and expecting it to change or improve an issue.
1.) I work for Tribologik and we don't sell anything but UOA 2. You can't buy UOA from Tribologik without being a commercial client.
I don't know everything, but most of this stuff is very basic oil stuff. If you were getting into formulating chemistries I would be lost. I'm open to questions, just sometimes I hate having to repeat certain things and "prove" I work in this field.
High mileage oil has slightly better additive packs in their formula's, that's what you're buying and paying for. I'm starting to get confused as you're quoting me but you're editing the quotes, and I don't understand what you're saying. I'll rephrase if maybe I'm the confusing one.
A "high mileage" oil will have better additives that a "regular" oil, but when compared to higher quality, non-Autozone oils, like Amsoil, RLI, etc. those "high mileage" oils showed no difference in wear and still did not perform as well as those oils do. For example RLI was able to bring down the fuel dilution issue in my sister's Accord (250,000 miles). They had previously been using M1 High Mileage. Not only did ring seal improve and other values did as well, the wear came down substanially, the oil leak she had under the car has also improved by quite a bit but it is still partially there. In her case, it's not worth fixing that car, my dad drove it for years, and then gave it to her.
Meaning you are better off buying a higher quality oil to protect it better than getting a "high mileage" oil and expecting it to change or improve an issue.
06-14-17, 01:49 PM
#35
Think of a regular person at age 25. You can feed him garbage like Michael Phelps and he will burn it off and have little side effects from eating a so/so diet.
Take a 87 year old and feed them garbage, you can kill them almost instantly, lol.
As engine's get older, more worn, less efficient. They need better protection and detergents to keep deposits down, wear down, etc. High Mileage M1 in an old engine is certainly better than regular M1, but compared to a true high quality oil, it is no match. I hope this is an easier way to understand what I'm trying to convey.
edit: when most oils are made, there are compromises in the chemistry, 1. keep the price down, 2. sell better chemistries to you later on. as things get older, they need better care, a law of life I would say.
Take a 87 year old and feed them garbage, you can kill them almost instantly, lol.
As engine's get older, more worn, less efficient. They need better protection and detergents to keep deposits down, wear down, etc. High Mileage M1 in an old engine is certainly better than regular M1, but compared to a true high quality oil, it is no match. I hope this is an easier way to understand what I'm trying to convey.
edit: when most oils are made, there are compromises in the chemistry, 1. keep the price down, 2. sell better chemistries to you later on. as things get older, they need better care, a law of life I would say.
06-14-17, 05:42 PM
#36
Well for one, I have not sold any UOA, oil, filters or anything of the sorts to people on here. I have no affliations to Amsoil, RLI, Exxon, Pennzoil or any other players.
1.) I work for Tribologik and we don't sell anything but UOA 2. You can't buy UOA from Tribologik without being a commercial client.
I don't know everything, but most of this stuff is very basic oil stuff. If you were getting into formulating chemistries I would be lost. I'm open to questions, just sometimes I hate having to repeat certain things and "prove" I work in this field.
High mileage oil has slightly better additive packs in their formula's, that's what you're buying and paying for. I'm starting to get confused as you're quoting me but you're editing the quotes, and I don't understand what you're saying. I'll rephrase if maybe I'm the confusing one.
A "high mileage" oil will have better additives that a "regular" oil, but when compared to higher quality, non-Autozone oils, like Amsoil, RLI, etc. those "high mileage" oils showed no difference in wear and still did not perform as well as those oils do. For example RLI was able to bring down the fuel dilution issue in my sister's Accord (250,000 miles). They had previously been using M1 High Mileage. Not only did ring seal improve and other values did as well, the wear came down substanially, the oil leak she had under the car has also improved by quite a bit but it is still partially there. In her case, it's not worth fixing that car, my dad drove it for years, and then gave it to her.
Meaning you are better off buying a higher quality oil to protect it better than getting a "high mileage" oil and expecting it to change or improve an issue.
1.) I work for Tribologik and we don't sell anything but UOA 2. You can't buy UOA from Tribologik without being a commercial client.
I don't know everything, but most of this stuff is very basic oil stuff. If you were getting into formulating chemistries I would be lost. I'm open to questions, just sometimes I hate having to repeat certain things and "prove" I work in this field.
High mileage oil has slightly better additive packs in their formula's, that's what you're buying and paying for. I'm starting to get confused as you're quoting me but you're editing the quotes, and I don't understand what you're saying. I'll rephrase if maybe I'm the confusing one.
A "high mileage" oil will have better additives that a "regular" oil, but when compared to higher quality, non-Autozone oils, like Amsoil, RLI, etc. those "high mileage" oils showed no difference in wear and still did not perform as well as those oils do. For example RLI was able to bring down the fuel dilution issue in my sister's Accord (250,000 miles). They had previously been using M1 High Mileage. Not only did ring seal improve and other values did as well, the wear came down substanially, the oil leak she had under the car has also improved by quite a bit but it is still partially there. In her case, it's not worth fixing that car, my dad drove it for years, and then gave it to her.
Meaning you are better off buying a higher quality oil to protect it better than getting a "high mileage" oil and expecting it to change or improve an issue.
Think of a regular person at age 25. You can feed him garbage like Michael Phelps and he will burn it off and have little side effects from eating a so/so diet.
Take a 87 year old and feed them garbage, you can kill them almost instantly, lol.
As engine's get older, more worn, less efficient. They need better protection and detergents to keep deposits down, wear down, etc. High Mileage M1 in an old engine is certainly better than regular M1, but compared to a true high quality oil, it is no match. I hope this is an easier way to understand what I'm trying to convey.
edit: when most oils are made, there are compromises in the chemistry, 1. keep the price down, 2. sell better chemistries to you later on. as things get older, they need better care, a law of life I would say.
Take a 87 year old and feed them garbage, you can kill them almost instantly, lol.
As engine's get older, more worn, less efficient. They need better protection and detergents to keep deposits down, wear down, etc. High Mileage M1 in an old engine is certainly better than regular M1, but compared to a true high quality oil, it is no match. I hope this is an easier way to understand what I'm trying to convey.
edit: when most oils are made, there are compromises in the chemistry, 1. keep the price down, 2. sell better chemistries to you later on. as things get older, they need better care, a law of life I would say.
Your ranking of motor oils (from better to less good) is Amsoil, RLI, etc oil > name brand "high mileage" oil > name brand "regular" oil > Autozone brand oil.
And based on your rankings, you suggest going with Amsoil/RLI rather than "high mileage" oil, although in an "old engine" (however that is defined), "high mileage" is better than "regular" oil.
The last part is very similar to what others seemed to be saying when they brought up "high mileage" oil. And people would probably like to know that Amsoil and RLI look like they cost considerably more than the more common, non-Autozone name brands.
06-14-17, 07:33 PM
#37
correct, and a lot of those customers are racing teams, high end performance shops, factory sponsored teams, etc.
Correct, although I often read on these high mileage bottles 75,000+ miles, honestly for me 75,000 is just broken in, lol. A well maintained motor can run for a long long time, these are toyotas we're talking about here.
Yes, Amsoil and RLI cost more, amsoil has their customer program thing for $10 that gives you 25% off. But honestly how much more expensive is RLI? Wal-mart sells M1 for $25~, M1 HM or M1 EP for $29~. RLI costs $31. I don't know amsoil cost off my head. And if you buy at Autozone, M1 is $35~.
Factor in my RC-F which is redlined 4-5 times daily and 150 miles a day. M1 keep fuel down in my crank case to 3.5%. RLI brough it down to 1%. That is huge, that 2.5% difference, is the difference of making it to 300,000 miles or making it to 150,000. That's just ring seal, my wear values decreased by 35%ish. For $3-6 dollars more, if you can buy the RLI(online), then I think it's case is easily made, and since it performs better, it's an oil that can actually go longer, although it is not an extended drain oil and not an oil that will go 15K.
Correct, although I often read on these high mileage bottles 75,000+ miles, honestly for me 75,000 is just broken in, lol. A well maintained motor can run for a long long time, these are toyotas we're talking about here.
Yes, Amsoil and RLI cost more, amsoil has their customer program thing for $10 that gives you 25% off. But honestly how much more expensive is RLI? Wal-mart sells M1 for $25~, M1 HM or M1 EP for $29~. RLI costs $31. I don't know amsoil cost off my head. And if you buy at Autozone, M1 is $35~.
Factor in my RC-F which is redlined 4-5 times daily and 150 miles a day. M1 keep fuel down in my crank case to 3.5%. RLI brough it down to 1%. That is huge, that 2.5% difference, is the difference of making it to 300,000 miles or making it to 150,000. That's just ring seal, my wear values decreased by 35%ish. For $3-6 dollars more, if you can buy the RLI(online), then I think it's case is easily made, and since it performs better, it's an oil that can actually go longer, although it is not an extended drain oil and not an oil that will go 15K.
06-14-17, 08:57 PM
#38
Yes, Amsoil and RLI cost more, amsoil has their customer program thing for $10 that gives you 25% off. But honestly how much more expensive is RLI? Wal-mart sells M1 for $25~, M1 HM or M1 EP for $29~. RLI costs $31. I don't know amsoil cost off my head. And if you buy at Autozone, M1 is $35~.
Factor in my RC-F which is redlined 4-5 times daily and 150 miles a day. M1 keep fuel down in my crank case to 3.5%. RLI brough it down to 1%. That is huge, that 2.5% difference, is the difference of making it to 300,000 miles or making it to 150,000. That's just ring seal, my wear values decreased by 35%ish. For $3-6 dollars more, if you can buy the RLI(online), then I think it's case is easily made, and since it performs better, it's an oil that can actually go longer, although it is not an extended drain oil and not an oil that will go 15K.
Factor in my RC-F which is redlined 4-5 times daily and 150 miles a day. M1 keep fuel down in my crank case to 3.5%. RLI brough it down to 1%. That is huge, that 2.5% difference, is the difference of making it to 300,000 miles or making it to 150,000. That's just ring seal, my wear values decreased by 35%ish. For $3-6 dollars more, if you can buy the RLI(online), then I think it's case is easily made, and since it performs better, it's an oil that can actually go longer, although it is not an extended drain oil and not an oil that will go 15K.
Amsoil is about $47 for 4 quarts, $12 for one and the 25% off costs $20 per year. Taking 2x 5qt oil changes per year, that's about $101 ($81 for the oil and $20 for the program).
The RLI website has shipping costs that depend on destination. 5w30 from RLI seems to run $27.22 with $14.76 shipping (cheapest one) to get to me. My other car takes 0w40, which RLI doesn't offer.
Good for you that you are thinking 300k, but I'm not thinking that for my RX.
Last edited by mylexbaby; 06-14-17 at 09:05 PM.
06-14-17, 11:24 PM
#39
My RC-F third sample report.pdf
I drive 50,000 miles a year. That is why I can. Your RX depending on the year and usage would likely begin to experience other areas of failure before reaching 300,000 miles. You could run a 5W depending on usage, climate, and some other factors.
I am not a fan of anything or anyone, I merely like what works, if Mobil tomorrow came out with a formula that outperformed RLI, Ams, Redline or Motul, then you'd hear me talk about them. Pennzoil outperformed M1 but it's got some other issues for long term oils.
Sounds like you are a fan of Amsoil and RLI over M1. And based on your comments, other brands beyond M1 probably don't measure up to your standards.
Amsoil is about $47 for 4 quarts, $12 for one and the 25% off costs $20 per year. Taking 2x 5qt oil changes per year, that's about $101 ($81 for the oil and $20 for the program).
The RLI website has shipping costs that depend on destination. 5w30 from RLI seems to run $27.22 with $14.76 shipping (cheapest one) to get to me. My other car takes 0w40, which RLI doesn't offer.
edit: check out that report, third sample % was RLI with 1400 miles additional use and track time. Second sample was M1, first was vavloline
edit: check out the fuel %, the thrid sample was on RLI with 1400 additional miles of hard track usage, second was using M1, first was valvoline.
Good for you that you are thinking 300k, but I'm not thinking that for my RX.
Amsoil is about $47 for 4 quarts, $12 for one and the 25% off costs $20 per year. Taking 2x 5qt oil changes per year, that's about $101 ($81 for the oil and $20 for the program).
The RLI website has shipping costs that depend on destination. 5w30 from RLI seems to run $27.22 with $14.76 shipping (cheapest one) to get to me. My other car takes 0w40, which RLI doesn't offer.
edit: check out that report, third sample % was RLI with 1400 miles additional use and track time. Second sample was M1, first was vavloline
edit: check out the fuel %, the thrid sample was on RLI with 1400 additional miles of hard track usage, second was using M1, first was valvoline.
Good for you that you are thinking 300k, but I'm not thinking that for my RX.
I am not a fan of anything or anyone, I merely like what works, if Mobil tomorrow came out with a formula that outperformed RLI, Ams, Redline or Motul, then you'd hear me talk about them. Pennzoil outperformed M1 but it's got some other issues for long term oils.
06-14-17, 11:27 PM
#40
check out that report. Third sample was RLI with 1400 miles of additional usage and track time. Second was M1 and first was valvoline. look at the fuel % and wear elements.
06-15-17, 08:00 AM
#41
Second, I'm not looking for disagreement. I am, however, interested in the topic. So I'm going to point out that so far, your comments are based in part on your personal, anecdotal evidence. This doesn't mean that you are wrong. It just means that there can still be questions.
For example, it seems that the three tests were in Feb, Apr, and Jun of 2017, with 999, 4969, and 6300 "time on oil". I don't know if that means miles (and if miles whether that is inclusive or not -- IOW, was the second test after 4969 miles with the second oil or 4969 minus 999 from the first oil). Also, there is a "time since overhaul" which might indicate something relevant.
At a minimum it seems that the oils were not subject to identical use conditions, which is consistent with what you wrote.
Last, I think many people are interested in what oil to use with the 5000 or so miles they drive (probably without racing or track time) between changes. So a question they probably have is whether using name brands other than Amsoil and RLI would be enough to take care of their interests.
Last edited by mylexbaby; 06-15-17 at 08:27 AM.
06-15-17, 10:01 AM
#42
First, I'm not sure if the attachment identifies you, and it is up to you to decide whether that is ok. Some forums don't allow identification; I don't know about this one.
Second, I'm not looking for disagreement. I am, however, interested in the topic. So I'm going to point out that so far, your comments are based in part on your personal, anecdotal evidence. This doesn't mean that you are wrong. It just means that there can still be questions.
For example, it seems that the three tests were in Feb, Apr, and Jun of 2017, with 999, 4969, and 6300 "time on oil". I don't know if that means miles (and if miles whether that is inclusive or not -- IOW, was the second test after 4969 miles with the second oil or 4969 minus 999 from the first oil). Also, there is a "time since overhaul" which might indicate something relevant.
At a minimum it seems that the oils were not subject to identical use conditions, which is consistent with what you wrote.
Last, I think many people are interested in what oil to use with the 5000 or so miles they drive (probably without racing or track time) between changes. So a question they probably have is whether using name brands other than Amsoil and RLI would be enough to take care of their interests.
Second, I'm not looking for disagreement. I am, however, interested in the topic. So I'm going to point out that so far, your comments are based in part on your personal, anecdotal evidence. This doesn't mean that you are wrong. It just means that there can still be questions.
For example, it seems that the three tests were in Feb, Apr, and Jun of 2017, with 999, 4969, and 6300 "time on oil". I don't know if that means miles (and if miles whether that is inclusive or not -- IOW, was the second test after 4969 miles with the second oil or 4969 minus 999 from the first oil). Also, there is a "time since overhaul" which might indicate something relevant.
At a minimum it seems that the oils were not subject to identical use conditions, which is consistent with what you wrote.
Last, I think many people are interested in what oil to use with the 5000 or so miles they drive (probably without racing or track time) between changes. So a question they probably have is whether using name brands other than Amsoil and RLI would be enough to take care of their interests.
The first one had 5,000 miles, that was an error made, I must have put in the original report, the secondary report had the 999 changed.
The first 5,000 were easy miles, the second were so/so, and the third were very very hard. This is the conclusion one can draw that is scientific. The RLI with much harder use, an extra 1,400 miles and more duration out performed the M1 and Valvoline that were subjected to easy and medium usage. Granted I use my own records because there's no NDA being violated. There's loads of data support the RLI in even light use vehicles. Usually people ask the opposite, they want to know how it handles in applications pushing the limits, to determine how effective it will be for the light duty market.
Definately, I understand the avg. person just wants to take their equipment as long as they can for as little $$ as possible. Amsoil SS, not the other cheaper amsoils or RLI BioSyn will do excellent for the average consumer. If those oils can not be found in your area, then M1EP is the next alternative. On the RX I'd get M1EP in a 0W20 vs the 5W30 that's called for, as long as you're not towing heavy equipment. Combine that with a WIX XP filter and replace the air filters every 10K. People usually are shocked when we tell them the air filter is as important as the oil filter. It is the air the engine breathes after all.
The RLI which is better than the Amsoil SS, and it's from American resources, should be good in most vehicles for 7,000 without UOA. Granted you take a risk not doing the UOA on your vehicle to set up the OCI but from the vehicles I've switched over to RLI and had retested, all of them could with stand 7K, except the race cars/track cars.
06-15-17, 10:21 AM
#43
Always open to questions there are no issues, correct that is me, I welcome any internet stalkers to come to my house, just bring a drink!
The first one had 5,000 miles, that was an error made, I must have put in the original report, the secondary report had the 999 changed.
The first 5,000 were easy miles, ....
The first one had 5,000 miles, that was an error made, I must have put in the original report, the secondary report had the 999 changed.
The first 5,000 were easy miles, ....
And the idea of going away the 5w30 recommendation is very interesting. I've seen the suggestion elsewhere, along with detailed reasons based on oil viscosity in a cold engine at start up being a main focus, and with 0w30 being an alternative to 0w20.
06-15-17, 11:18 AM
#44
Brand new engine, it's a 2015 RC-F, but they were not the first miles on the engine. The engine got 1,600 miles of break in new, there was still some break in wear flushed out in that first sample as you can see.
I'd go to a 20 weight because it will be easier on the entire engine range as well as providing better ring seal, fuel economy and lubrication to critical components. You almost always want to go with the lightest oil required. Granted, if you're towing or straining this thing, a 30 weight will do.
I'd go to a 20 weight because it will be easier on the entire engine range as well as providing better ring seal, fuel economy and lubrication to critical components. You almost always want to go with the lightest oil required. Granted, if you're towing or straining this thing, a 30 weight will do.
06-15-17, 02:16 PM
#45
Brand new engine, it's a 2015 RC-F, but they were not the first miles on the engine. The engine got 1,600 miles of break in new, there was still some break in wear flushed out in that first sample as you can see.
I'd go to a 20 weight because it will be easier on the entire engine range as well as providing better ring seal, fuel economy and lubrication to critical components. You almost always want to go with the lightest oil required. Granted, if you're towing or straining this thing, a 30 weight will do.
I'd go to a 20 weight because it will be easier on the entire engine range as well as providing better ring seal, fuel economy and lubrication to critical components. You almost always want to go with the lightest oil required. Granted, if you're towing or straining this thing, a 30 weight will do.
As for 0w20, there is a presumption favoring the engineers and their choice of __w30. Dropping the 5 to 0 doesn't challenge the presumption as much (and can be considered doing better for cold starts).