al503

JRB,
Agreed on the inconsistency of the dealerships. It got so bad at mine that I took a vacation day and made the trek to the next nearest dealership, which was ~175 miles away. They weren't able to fix any of the problems but they actually made an effort to, which is what matters.

Infiniti Consumer Affairs is/was of no help either. Their mantra is "the dealerships are independently owned and operated and we have no control over what they do." Thanks for nothing.

The only thing left for me to do is wait for the GS and never give my money or business to Infiniti/Renault.

parula

Al503, that is super service from any dealer, and similar to what I have experienced with a system problem at a Lexus dealer.

But I have also had difficulty getting noises/rattles fixed, even when the issue is previously reported by others or referenced in TSBs, unless they can witness the problem. I tried to drive my previous '99 on their test track to duplicate a noise I heard EVERY morning on my local road and because they could not hear it they would not fix it.

I find this very frustrating to say the least at Lexus. While I can understand reluctance to work on obscure reported rattles without history, I would think that most of the stuff they hear is frequently reported, and fixable, sort of like doctors trained to look for the obvious problem, first. The several rattles on which I have investigated and observed fixes were not difficult, I have to wonder if the others on my car would be the same?

al503

hi parula,
the major difference between your situation and mine is that I was indeed able to replicate the noises/problems for them to no avail.
al503

parula

Al, that is inexcusable then IMO! Good luck, pressure 'em to fix it..

My '99 RX was basically a first year edition too and I had to really push them to acknowledge/fix issues that didn't directly affect the cars function, it seemed, and many went unfixed.

al503

parula,
I feel like a lab monkey who has pressed the little lever for a treat too many times without getting one. When I take the car in, all I get are lame excuses and greasy fingerprints. They got my sunvisor so bad once that I had to take it to a detailer to have them take the stains out. Anyway, I just have to put up with the car for another year or so. Hopefully the new GS will come out fall '04 and they will go for less then MSRP by spring '05.
al503

LexFather

As soon as they sell 14,000 FXs a month and the FX is called the best mid-size Luxury SUV I will be convinced. Since that will never happen, the RX OWSZ the FX. Jeez, they even dang near stole the name. For being a luxury SUV, the interior is average at best. So why badge it a luxury car?

parula

al, I have had similar problems, ink on seat, dinged nut wells on wheels when rotated, greasy finger marks on the seat, etc.

I now specify that the car is free of wood scratches, etc. in WRITING when I drop her off. Since I started doing that I have not had an issue.

I am an honest person and baby the car and I do not want odd things happening to her; ok, even my wife hates to drive her with me as the overseer! Perfectionism is a curse in this world, I think.

LX dealers are basically great, I guess stuff can happen anywhere, but not at my expense, if I can help it.

JRB

Infiniti will never sell anywhere close to 14,000 FX's a month, since it's not a mainstream vehicle. Ford sells way more Explorers than all of the luxury makes' SUV's combined, but that doesn't necessarily make it the "best" mid-sized SUV. For me, a little exclusivity is a good thing, as I won't see another one coming at me every time I take a corner.

As far as the interior is concerned, I do like the styling but I agree that the materials (particularly the door panels) are not as high quality as you would expect to see. Certainly not as nice as the RX or in my previous car, an Audi allroad. Infiniti spent the money on the performance instead; both it's handling and acceleration will blow the RX away. By the same token, a Porsche Cayene Turbo will blow my FX45 away, but that kind of money buys both our FX and RX. And it's certainly not as luxurious as the RX330, but I doubt that bothers most Cayenne buyers all that much either.

The RX and FX each cater to a different audience, and in the case of the FX (and Cayenne) it's a much narrower audience. Which total package you like better just depends on your priorities, and all I can say is that my wife and I feel very fortunate to own both models. I do see Lexus moving in a more performance-oriented direction (HPX, for example) and when they combine this plus all of their other superior qualities, maybe they'll sell 30,000 a month.

LexFather

The FX and RX do not cater to a different audiences. MARKETING has people believing this though. Both are car based, both are mid-size, both are luxury SUVs, both offer great dealer service. Indeed the FX45 maybe different competition for it's engine but that is it. People now cross shop the RX 330 and X5 where I don't think many did with the RX 300.

Alas, choice is good and Infiniti did a great job making the production car almost exactly like the concept SUV. The G35 and FX are bar-none their best models.

FYI, Nissan is thinking of selling Infiniti in 3 years over-seas. The would bring the G35/FX and M45 over.

JRB

By "cater to a different audience" I meant that the people who end up buying these two models have different profiles. It's easily to tell this just by looking at the postings in this forum and FreshAlloy.com, and also by observing the different reactions of people when they first see either one of our cars. RX buyers are generally older and more interested in luxury. For example you see postings on this board from people who complain that the engine to be noisier than the RX300, and from others who question wheher or not the ride of the 18 inch tires might be too rough.

The FX attracts younger buyers who value performance over comfort and luxury. I think the styling of the two cars has a lot to do with it also. I'm amazed at how much younger males in particular - all the way down to pre-teen boys - are attracted to the FX. By contrast, most middle-aged and senior adults (especially females) think the FX styling is too radical. The FX definitely provokes strong reactions either way, whereas the RX styling is much more conservative and more evolutionary than revolutionary.

I agree with your comment that the G35 and FX are by far Infiniti's best models. Before they came out I didn't give Infiniti a second look - none of the others were remotely appealing to me, and this is still the case.

I didn't understand your last comment (Nissan is thinking of selling Infiniti in 3 years over-seas. The would bring the G35/FX and M45 over) as of course all of these models are already available here.

parula

I agree, the FX is the only Infiniti I would look at and I intend to test drive it soon. Their other cars are unappealingly designed, as are Acuras, IMO.

I should add, that with my frustration for the problems getting rattly things fixed, I certainly do appreciate that I have a new car with 7k and no major obvious problems. It basically runs great.

Nice work Lexus!

JohnsRX

"Their other cars are unappealingly designed" hmmmmm........................this coming from an Lexus owner???? Im impressed.

RXKen

Actually, I should say that my wife is probably the most qualfied to post in this thread. She owned a '99 RX300 and drove it a little over 60,000 miles before turning it in as a trade-in on her new FX45 in January of this year. Since that time we've got 15,000 miles on the FX45.

I'll throw into this mix that for 6 months I owned a G35 coupe while I waited for my new car to come in from Germany, then sold the G35 coupe. I didn't have problems with it like that one person here did, but from the sounds of it, he's got a bad dealer, and believe me the dealer can make all the difference.

Our local Lexus dealer isn't the best but it isn't the worst, they just want a lot of money for doing very little, they are the only Lexus dealer around so they are fat and happy and want to remain that way. For example, the 15K service on the RX300 was about $300 MORE than the same 15K service on the FX45. Better oil? You decide.

The RX300 we had did have some problems. It sprung 3 flat tires on us thanks to the awful Goodyear Integrity (and I use that term loosely) tires it had originally which were not designed to hold a vehicle of its weight/size. When we sold the car it was having front suspension problems that were getting increasingly worse, and no this wasn't a result of taking it off-road. The leather interior (gray) was not holding up as well as the leather in some of our other cars, maybe that's why Lexus shifted away from it in later years? I don't know. Otherwise no major mechanical problems, just little nit pick items here and there.

The FX45 has had only one problem and that was a chipped wheel at delivery which was quickly replaced by our dealer. The interior leather (baseball glove color brick) is holding up quite well as is the REAL aluminum interior. Why people slam the Infiniti's interior is beyond me. The ONLY place the RX has leather than the Infiniti doesn't is on the doors, which doesn't matter to me because I don't care much for pleated leather on the doors. If you want to talk leather go Porsche where you can get every square inch of your interior covered in leather.

The FX obviously has more features than the RX300, but is much closer to the RX330. Some RX fans will say "where's the power hatch" to which FX owners can respond "Where's your intelligent key or laser guided cruise control??" etc. etc. I've used the NAV systems in both cars and I like the Infiniti one better, but I still haven't found a Nav system that does some of the things I want it to do, so by no means is either system perfect.

In my opinion the Bose system in the premium package in the FX sounds better than the system in the RX, particularly for watching DVD's on the rear entertainment system.

Off-road use? Get serious, neither vehicle would be any good without modifications and yes you can modify both, well the RX300 more so than the 330 and the FX35 more so than the 45, but you are splitting hairs at that point.

Reliability? Quality? The difference between Infiniti and Lexus is so minute that other differences, like your dealership, are going to play a larger role during the lifetime of your vehicle. Again, if you want #1 then go Porsche, they were number 1 in the last JD Power ranking, but the difference between any of the top 10 makes is pretty small and fluctuates all the time.

Features and "Luxury" are pretty close between both the FX and the RX and it is going to come down to personal preference. For example my wife and I prefer aluminum to wood interiors, but that's just us. I would also note that our RX300 was much more noisy on the highway (wind noise primarily) than our FX45. The only noise I can hear in the FX is that sweet exhaust note, although it helps to put the windows down to drink it in.

Where the difference isn't close is in performance. The FX45 runs 0-60 in 6.3 seconds, the FX35 in 7.2, both faster than the RX330/300. Both handle much better as well, look at the skid pad rating of the FX and you'll find that it rivals a '99 Porsche 911. Braking? Again, great stopping power. But don't believe the magazines, take the cars to the test track. We've driven both our FX45 and the RX300 on our local GT 2.5 mile roadcourse and the FX45 is the hands down winner both in terms of handling and acceleration, but it really should be, Infiniti designed the FX that way, Lexus didn't do that for the RX.

So when someone says these cars target the same audience, that's only true from a $ range perspective. I know people who bought the FX over the RX, the X5 and the Cayenne because of its performance, and I know people who bought the RX330 because they didn't care about the performance. I believe that one Infiniti dealer is on record stating that the majority of the competitive sales they win are against BMW and that the number one trade in for the FX is the RX, but that isn't necessarily a statistically valid sample, just comments from one of the largest Infiniti dealers in the country (Grubbs in Dallas).

Lastly, for those who say "can't see out the back", I'd either say:

1) Learn to use your mirrors -or-
2) What is behind you in the FX doesn't matter because it probably can't catch you anyway...

If I had to put numbers to it, from our experience I would draw it up like this:

"Luxury and Features"
If the RX is a 100, then the FX is a 96

Performance
If the FX is a 100, then the RX is an 83

There are, of course, many other categories you could break it down into, resale value, looks - subjective of course, dealership quality, etc. etc.

What it comes down to is that you need to buy the car that is the best match for YOU and be happy with it.

Let me repeat - BUY WHAT YOU LIKE AND BE HAPPY.

For us, for now, we are happier with our FX45, YMMV.

IsraelRX

How many miles/years do you have on your FX that you already know its leather holds better than the RX??
Anyways comparing an RX300, a car dated back to 1999 to an FX45 isn't fair, the real comparison is RX330 to FX35. I don't know which I would have picked.
BTW in your post you said nothing about the ride, which by all amgazines the RX is better.

parula

RXK, very glad you like your FX, you make a lot of good points, I can't wait to test one.

Yea, the service rates are rough at Lexus, a lot of that is covered on other threads so I'll drop it.