After I changed oil in my ML 430, I laid
the oil filter on a paper towel for about
5 hours till it drained real good, put on
my reading glasses, took a very bright
flashlight, and carefully spread apart the
ridges and ran a very small flat tipped
screwdriver along the bottom of the
recessed paper ridges. The crud is very
easy to scrape up.
But on the 4.3 MB engine the oil filter is
a paper element or "cartridge" and very
easy to change. Another unique feature
with Mercedes is the dirty oil flows from
the outside of the filter to the inside
trapping the contaminants on the outside
for a quick confirmation.

 

Scott, Many thanks for the details. I'm familiar with the MB setup after many oil changes on the 560SEL. Never saw sludge on the filter paper surface (I've looked). Strange you would find it in the ML 430 engine.

As far as my RX300 3.0L, the first thing I noticed is the oil cap and oil fill opening in/on which when I got the vehicle w/50k mi I could easily scrape off easily 1/32 of sludge with a screw driver blade - I was actually shocked to see this and have further investigation to do!

:eek:

 

Ederney, that was the exact reason I got to looking into the Mercedes sludge
problem; the oil cap was as bad as one
could get with sludge and crust, as you did yours,
I scrapped it off and in addition it
had a big glob of whiteish-yellow paste
on it. Like a thick shaving cream.
I have to say I was shocked to find
Lexus is having the same problem.
I've always admired Lexus for their
world famous reliability.
I guy told me it is not the fault of the
car makers but of the U.S. Government,
as they started recommending to the
car makers in 96 and 97 to extend the
oil change interval out to 7500 to lessen
our dependency on oil and to cut oil
waste in half.
Who knows for sure? Beats me.
We really like the ML 430 though, we just
hope the engine is healthy after all that neglect.
And it's not real strange to find it in a 430 engine as MBUSA told me that ALL
engines in 98 and 99 are covered
in the class action suit.

 

Gee, I just traded in a 99 Land Rover because I was worried about all the quality problems with the engine. At 20K I had to have the rockers replaced and I was told by the dealer to get it back before the warranty runs out since they have the redo the valves.

So I dumped the Rover for a 99 Certified RX300 with 39K miles. Then the next day I discover all these issues with oil sludge............ do I feel stupid............

Sure I have a warranty for another 4+ years on the engine but I bought this vehicle because of its capability of going well over 200K miles. Once the warranty runs out then what????

OK - here is my question, - what should one do to remove the sludge buildup - I noticed Amsoil and others sell engine flushes which proport to clear out sludge. Do these work???

Appreciate anyones comments.....

 

.... sort of sounds like a commercial for an all purpose clenser.

Anyway, I've seen the yellow/white build up on the filler cap of several engines that all had the oil filler pipe in such a place as not to be very well heated. That is, the pipe was cool as compared to the rest of the engine. And the build up was mostly in cold weather (winter), so I concluded it is from condensation of blow-by, etc. which is a mixture of water vapor, oil, gas, exhaust products and who knows what else.

Anyway, I will change oil every 3kmi as I've done to every engine I've owned (e.g. '70 Ford Torino Cobra 429 cu. in. w/225,000 mi - no engine work and MB 560SEL - no engine work w/275,000 mi) and I also plan on using an engine flush first chance I get (had the 99 RX for 4 wks now).

By the way, the local Toyota dealer service department mentioned the sludge problem with this engine and offed their engine oil flush service for $129. Don't know how well these professional flush jobs do (anyone?).

...and geez, I'm glad I didn't buy a Land Rover! My wife looked at them. Close call! "bring it in again for a VALVE JOB"! Hard to believe, but then again it's British.

 

Yes, Do not buy a Land Rover. As I said my Rocker Arms went bad by 20,000 miles and the service department told me that the Valves on Land Rovers are too tight in the US market. As the engine wears and carbon builds up on the valves , it creates problems. Since I had treated my car well and had low mileage the problems would not show up probably until it was out of warranty. The majority of Land Rover owners who "abuse" there vehicles have this problem show up under warranty - and it is a $3000 problem to fix out of warranty.

Back to the sludge issues. Seems then that Lexus recommends engine flushing as a means to help alleviate this issue.

One other thing I want to try and figure out. Has anyone who uses synthetic oil run into this problem???

What I do on all my vehicles is do my own oil changes at 5000 miles and use Mobil One and a high quality oil filter (K&N, Pure One, etc.). My total bill is about the same as what it would be if I went to Jiffy Lube for a traditional oil change. (plus I am assured that my car is not screwed up by some low paid ........)

I have seen some posts where folks recommend having the dealer do all your oil changes so there is a record - but the dealer does not use synthetic - right. So what should I do?

My sales guy at Lexus told me it is no problem if I do my own oil changes, and just write it down in the booklet as a record. Will this fly with Lexus if problems occur?

 

Your right on the money with why the
moisture and white residue is on the
fill cap of a taller and cooler oil fill well.
That's exactly what Mercedes told me.
Dealer engine flush; I don't know
anything about these. It sounds like
it's professional though at 120.00
Engine flush;
A large number of people in the know
on this kind of thing believes there is a
danger of breaking loose too much crud
sludge gell coke whatever you call it and
runnung the risk of a large piece getting
thru the oil pump screen and filter and
destroying a main or rod bearing.
So.............what to do?
First, determine how much your oil
consumption is. If it is at the max, you
are owed some serious engine help as in a new short block or complete overhaul.
Mercedes says one quart in 500 or 600 miles is too much and the ball
begins to roll. I will scream for a new
short block assembly or a lawyer.
If oil consumption is OK I think I'll go
with 2 or 3 thousand mile oil changes
for a while and put in 1 quart of
Rislone about 500 miles before the oil change is due. Then check the filter
for sludge. The Mercedes filter is great
for a visual check.
Rislone has been on the market for over 40 years and has a great
reputation for cleaning an engine
s l o w l y and then keeping it clean.
Oil consumption from sludge builup is
from one or two things or both.
Either the crud buildup has "stuck"
the oil rings not allowing them to "float" and do their own thing,....
or worse, it has actually cut the cylinder bore along with piston rings.
If it is stuck oil rings, they will slowly
clean up with good oil change practices, unsticking theirself so to speak. But if the walls are cut, here
comes the shortblock. as I don't think
one can hone up the Nickasil coated
aluminum block in the Mercedes.
Not sure what Lexus has but I'll bet
it's similar.

Gee, if people would only change their
oil...................................
This sludge thing is going to cost the makers millions of dollars.

 

Don't they have BMW V-8 all aluminum
engines? Man, they are supposed to be
top notch. But then again so are
Mercedes.
It just goes to show you, you do have
change oil once in a while and run
a good gasoline.

 

Yes, the new Land Rover Range Rovers that cost over $70K have a BMW V-8, but the Land Rover Discoverys, the vehicles most of us mere mortals can afford, have a 1960s style Oldsmobile push rod V-8. This engine has been in use by Land Rover for nearly 40 years. I should not complain though, at least they are now using many Bosch ignition parts instead of Lucas.

I bet though that when Land Rover does another refresh of their Discovery in 2005/6 they will dump that old V-8 and grab something from the Ford family of engines.

So you thought paying $35K+ for a vehicle insured you a quality piece of equipment - think again!

 

Rayman, Use a good full synthetic oil starting at the first change, like I have done with many lexus and other vehicles and you do not have to worry about the problem. The problem is caused by heat and synthetics can withstand a lot more heat. This old wivestail of waiting til 15k for synthetic till the rings seat in is BS. These newer engines the rings seat in the first few hundred miles.If you change yourself just keep the receips for oil and filters and a record of the changes.

 

I will ignore the recommendations of Lexus and keep changing my oil every ~3k miles as I have tried to do on all cars for years. Never had an engine problem, even on a 17 yr. old Civic - no smoke & still passes inspection! I think this '03 RX is a keeper compared to the '99 IMO that was more than a bit rattly. I have noticed a lot of little changes and fixes on the '03 with respect to the '99 so this might be one to look at keeping.

IMO these recommendations for 5-7.5k miles are too long without a more dynamic filtering/cleaning system, maybe more like BMWs.

I am going to consider using synthetic before 3k. Does anyone know if the dealers will install it for an extra charge or does one need to give them the oil and still pay the ~$75 for the oil change?

What's the best synth. to use and how often does one need to conservatively change synths?

Appreciate any ideas.

tia

 

One more question about moving to synthetics. I have 40K on my Lexus and it currently has conventional oil. I have read that you should perform an engine flush....by basically pouring in a qt. of solvents, running for 5 minutes, and draining the oil/changing the filter....then adding the synthetic oil.

I agree it is good to clean the engine, but I am leery about running my engine on solvents for 5 minutes. Anyone have any ideas on this?

 

Typically:
Warm up engine to operating temp.
Add cleaner - idle for 5 min only.

I have done this to other engines with no ill side effects.
Just make sure you idle only.

My take on the 5 min cleaners is not much in the way of beneifcial results if the engine was cared for (oil changes every 5k or less). If the engine was sludgy I would use it. Otherwise, I would try one of the "use in your oil til the next oil change" types.

 

Rayman, Edurny is right idle only with cleaner in crankcase, I have cleaned many engines like this and use a couple qts of JetA fuel from your local airport. this type of kerosene has an oil base and will not harm anything. I have used it on 40K $ engines so it sure will not hurt the Lex engine. This whole sludge thing is caused by going to the cheepo oil change places and having cheepo oil put in that has not got the proper specs to run 3,000 miles far from 10K IMHO

 

Visited the dealer today to handle my rattle problems (they failed to fix them) and had a chat with one of the service guys. He told me they have 2 vehicles in the dealership right now with sludged up engines. He told me that on all certified used cars they take off the valve cover and inspect them for sludge. If they see any problems they will not sell them - so my pre-owned is OK - just need to keep it that way.