Which makes more power?
02-21-19, 02:55 AM
#16
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Thank you, you always make an effort to help - it is noticed and appreciated.
I think there are 2 conclusions, judging by the response. 1 - Valved exhaust in closed position makes no more power than stock. 2 - Exhaust + headers makes only a small amount of power over just the exhaust. Until proven otherwise. Normally I would prefer data but we don't seem to have any.
I think there are 2 conclusions, judging by the response. 1 - Valved exhaust in closed position makes no more power than stock. 2 - Exhaust + headers makes only a small amount of power over just the exhaust. Until proven otherwise. Normally I would prefer data but we don't seem to have any.
This is not correct, our valves exhaust in closed or quiet position makes same power as in loud position on non-Supercharged cars.
Rafi
hit us up, we have great deals now on our Valvetronic Bazooka exhaust system.
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BossMoss (02-21-19)
02-21-19, 09:21 AM
#17
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Interesting - ok. I have seen reports of lost power with valves closed in other applications, however, both of them are forced induction. Going from your qualification of non supercharged cars, it would appear that this is the important detail.
One was an audi, either an S4/S5 or the 2.0T.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...esults.242691/
The other was a Nissan GTR
https://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic...en-openclosed/
Separate note - my day job is in marketing. If in fact your exhaust can make the same power open or closed, I would consider that a strong product claim that you could use to differentiate yourself in the marketplace. Also - since you have a dyno and could easily (I'm sure you did) test these claims, you could post it showing people what they get from your exhaust open, closed, and in combination with headers, your tune, etc. You give dyno charts for the supercharger and your tune with part combinations so this seems to be possible and along the lines of what you do. I just find that it helps people make a decision. If it is all about sound and not power then that's a different story. You do at least have the sound video posted there.
Thanks as always for your contribution to the community.
One was an audi, either an S4/S5 or the 2.0T.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...esults.242691/
The other was a Nissan GTR
https://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic...en-openclosed/
Separate note - my day job is in marketing. If in fact your exhaust can make the same power open or closed, I would consider that a strong product claim that you could use to differentiate yourself in the marketplace. Also - since you have a dyno and could easily (I'm sure you did) test these claims, you could post it showing people what they get from your exhaust open, closed, and in combination with headers, your tune, etc. You give dyno charts for the supercharger and your tune with part combinations so this seems to be possible and along the lines of what you do. I just find that it helps people make a decision. If it is all about sound and not power then that's a different story. You do at least have the sound video posted there.
Thanks as always for your contribution to the community.
02-21-19, 01:22 PM
#18
Interesting - ok. I have seen reports of lost power with valves closed in other applications, however, both of them are forced induction. Going from your qualification of non supercharged cars, it would appear that this is the important detail.
One was an audi, either an S4/S5 or the 2.0T.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...esults.242691/
The other was a Nissan GTR
https://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic...en-openclosed/
Separate note - my day job is in marketing. If in fact your exhaust can make the same power open or closed, I would consider that a strong product claim that you could use to differentiate yourself in the marketplace. Also - since you have a dyno and could easily (I'm sure you did) test these claims, you could post it showing people what they get from your exhaust open, closed, and in combination with headers, your tune, etc. You give dyno charts for the supercharger and your tune with part combinations so this seems to be possible and along the lines of what you do. I just find that it helps people make a decision. If it is all about sound and not power then that's a different story. You do at least have the sound video posted there.
Thanks as always for your contribution to the community.
One was an audi, either an S4/S5 or the 2.0T.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...esults.242691/
The other was a Nissan GTR
https://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic...en-openclosed/
Separate note - my day job is in marketing. If in fact your exhaust can make the same power open or closed, I would consider that a strong product claim that you could use to differentiate yourself in the marketplace. Also - since you have a dyno and could easily (I'm sure you did) test these claims, you could post it showing people what they get from your exhaust open, closed, and in combination with headers, your tune, etc. You give dyno charts for the supercharger and your tune with part combinations so this seems to be possible and along the lines of what you do. I just find that it helps people make a decision. If it is all about sound and not power then that's a different story. You do at least have the sound video posted there.
Thanks as always for your contribution to the community.
That's also why I suggested you talk to Paul at PPE. I know the experience on my car - but I believe he has done at least one more since mine and I don't know what results he got on that one.
Last edited by BossMoss; 02-21-19 at 01:28 PM.
02-21-19, 01:25 PM
#19
I knew it. Boss is the person I was thinking of. You have posted this before, years ago when PPE was working with you on getting the exhaust designed. I may have even PMd you back then. I was surprised, but remembered, that there was not a big change in power with both. I was hoping to have more data points since then, especially when there are dynos around to test it. I can guarantee it has been tested and if there was a claim to be made, people would be selling based on it. To be fair the car is already faster than needed. A good sound that is not overly loud is what I'm after. Glad you showed up here Boss.
02-22-19, 05:27 AM
#20
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Thread Starter
All good for marketing, but the big problem in marketing a particular power increase, is that every car is different, and most dyno's are different and affected by elevation, etc. So, if you claim a certain HP gain and the buyer get's less of a gain than you advertise, there is a lot of negative PR or at least an unsatisfied customer. So, companies have to be very careful that they aren't giving misleading advertising. The other thing that happens is that the ECU goes through a learning curve - so the dyno numbers on the same car can increase (and decrease) over time.
That's also why I suggested you talk to Paul at PPE. I know the experience on my car - but I believe he has done at least one more since mine and I don't know what results he got on that one.
That's also why I suggested you talk to Paul at PPE. I know the experience on my car - but I believe he has done at least one more since mine and I don't know what results he got on that one.
1) in my industry, any claims I make are reviewed and regulated by the government. I cannot legally make them unless I have data to back them up. Data that the government agrees with. Just like your statement that every car is different and therefore the mod may perform differently, the same goes for me in that my products may not produce the same results in every human who uses them and so I must be careful to say that you "may" experience these positive results. I still make the claim though in order to give customers an idea of what I saw when used the product in x number of people. I also need to say exactly how tests were run and product administered. In the car case, you would state the type of dyno, temp, gear etc. I say all of that to say that it is ok that results will not be perfectly equal in all and that the data still has value.
2) Showing dyno results is already done for other products on the site from the supercharger to the ECU tune. If they are really worried about negative PR, why do it with those? Especially the tune which shows a peak band increase of 17hp. That's a pretty narrow band to market on, but they did it. I just would want to have the data for all mods under consideration is all.
In the end, it is their business and I am in no way here to force them to change anything. People tell us how to market all the time and we don't always follow it.
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BossMoss (02-22-19)
02-22-19, 05:31 AM
#21
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After what you are describing, I think you would love my setup. Do you have a good excuse to travel to AZ? Make one, and I'll let you drive my car. Also, I'm sure you have figured out that You Tube clips of exhaust sounds still leave you wondering. After all, you're hearing it through your computer or your phone. IMHO, you need to hear it in person.
02-22-19, 05:35 PM
#22
Yeah - youtube is how I got the Borla. And as I have said, in the upper rev range it sounds excellent. The low range is just loud when I don't want it and not as musical. I get to AZ infrequently for work but nothing scheduled right now. I will certainly tuck the offer in my pocket! Thank you sir.
Jim
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Apone (02-26-19)
02-24-19, 09:00 PM
#23
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