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RC - 1st Gen (2015-present) Discussion about the new Lexus RC model

Help me decide

 
Old 11-09-17, 01:31 PM
  #1  
keyframe13
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Hello again Lexus friends,
I am considering joining the family again.
Few years ago I own a IS250 and altho I liked the car a lot I really had buyer remorse of being too slow. It always frustrated me.
I decided to downsize to a 2 seater and get a Porsche Boxster, I have this car now for almost 3 years. The car is a blast to drive, really the best handling, like a go cart.it's been my daily driver and no problems. it sits to 46k miles today and it's a 2009.
Turns out I'll need a rear seat pretty soon and I really came down to 2 options: Lexus RC350 or BMW 435i
I test drove both and can't really decide yes.
BMW435i has a really good engine, good torque, great transmission. Interior look really old and not very premium. the dealership is really sad and arrogant.
Lexus RC350 - love the style, the interior, the quality of materials. It felt heavy and slow. the transmission is nothing close to BMW as that marketing "speed limiter" use to drive me nuts. The dealership is the best ever and the reliability give me peace in mind.
In a ideal world i'll be happy with a Lexus body and BMW engine and transmission:
Money wise Lexus if few thousands more than a BMW from what I see.
Help me decide. I know it is biased as I'll get different response in a BMW forum but might bring points i didn;t think of.
What you like, why you chose it, what you can;t stand, any buyer remorse, are you planning on getting something different?
Thanks
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Old 11-09-17, 02:04 PM
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Rudiculous
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Does it have to be a coupe?

The IS is lighter with the same engine and handles better since its chassis was specifically engineered as opposed to the RC’s which is made of 3 cars.
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Old 11-10-17, 05:33 AM
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I recently bought a low mileage RC350 FSport. I don't lease because I put ~30K miles a year on my cars. I did a lot of research on different makes and models. BMW was one of them. I ruled out the BMW's after talking to one of my coworkers about his. BMW puts electric motor water pumps with plastic impellers in all their cars now. Apparently they will fail or must be replaced by 90K miles and are very expensive to buy & install.

Another key feature I wanted to avoid was the electronic push button emergency brake. I am of the opinion that an E brake should be pure mechanical and not electrical at all. The RC350 has an old school mechanical E brake.

I could have gone after other makes / models that are faster. I avoid VW (had a turbo diesel Jetta and the turbo went out right before selling it back). The way the turbo failed was due to poor design. That carries over to Audi as well.

I really like the way the RC350 looks and drives. Yes it not a light car. Compare the IS and RC 0-60 times https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicl...-60-mph-times/

Does it matter if the BMW is ~1 second faster from 0-60? For me, there were too many things that made the RC350 a better car. All that really matters is if you are happy and like what you drive.
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Old 11-10-17, 05:56 AM
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By "rear seat" do you mean one that simply exists or one that a human being could actually occupy?
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Old 11-10-17, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudiculous View Post
Does it have to be a coupe?

The IS is lighter with the same engine and handles better since its chassis was specifically engineered as opposed to the RC €™s which is made of 3 cars.
Really want a coupe. Not considering a sedan at the moment. Funny how Lexus couldn;t make the coupe more engaging.

Originally Posted by 15RC350F View Post
By "rear seat" do you mean one that simply exists or one that a human being could actually occupy?
I meant a usable seat for few hours trip.

Last edited by keyframe13; 11-10-17 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 11-10-17, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by louczar View Post
I recently bought a low mileage RC350 FSport. I don't lease because I put ~30K miles a year on my cars. I did a lot of research on different makes and models. BMW was one of them. I ruled out the BMW's after talking to one of my coworkers about his. BMW puts electric motor water pumps with plastic impellers in all their cars now. Apparently they will fail or must be replaced by 90K miles and are very expensive to buy & install.

Another key feature I wanted to avoid was the electronic push button emergency brake. I am of the opinion that an E brake should be pure mechanical and not electrical at all. The RC350 has an old school mechanical E brake.

I could have gone after other makes / models that are faster. I avoid VW (had a turbo diesel Jetta and the turbo went out right before selling it back). The way the turbo failed was due to poor design. That carries over to Audi as well.

I really like the way the RC350 looks and drives. Yes it not a light car. Compare the IS and RC 0-60 times https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicl...-60-mph-times/

Does it matter if the BMW is ~1 second faster from 0-60? For me, there were too many things that made the RC350 a better car. All that really matters is if you are happy and like what you drive.
Thanks for your input louczar. If the water pump fails at 90k I'll say it's not a big deal.. it's kinda normal to replace it by 100k.
I agree with the reliability peace in mind Lexus has over BMW but doing my research the 4 series doesn;t look like it has any major problems. Not sure if the reliability has improved with BMW lately.
The Lexus felt a bit slow during my test drive probably because low end torque.
One other question I have is there a bike rack for RC, either roof or hitch?
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Old 11-10-17, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by keyframe13 View Post
Thanks for your input louczar. If the water pump fails at 90k I'll say it's not a big deal.. it's kinda normal to replace it by 100k.
I agree with the reliability peace in mind Lexus has over BMW but doing my research the 4 series doesn;t look like it has any major problems. Not sure if the reliability has improved with BMW lately.
The Lexus felt a bit slow during my test drive probably because low end torque.
One other question I have is there a bike rack for RC, either roof or hitch?
I was considering the same thing before I got my F. Here's my high level breakdown at the time, please remember that this focuses on the differences, and not the similarities between the two cars (mpg, lack of rear seat space, etc):

BMW 4/M4:
  • Pros:
  1. Faster quarter mile and 0 - 60 performance
  2. More torque from a stop
  3. More adjustability on suspension, steering, and throttle map
  4. Free maintenance
  • Cons:
  1. Lower relative reliability: BMW turbo engines are purely direct injected and requires intake valve walnut blasting. Along with this, are the standard BMW breakage points from window regulators, to lower control arm bushings, engine mounts, water pumps, etc.
  2. Higher parts costs: in my research, I looked at the parts costs from maintenance to repairs and everything seemed to be double or 2/3rds more than Lexus/Toyota parts resulting in higher final cost of ownership
  3. Relatively higher aftermarket part costs: I feel that this is almost a moot point, but most BMW parts cost more than for the RC, but have more availability - if that's your thing.
Lexus RC:
  • Pros:
  1. Better reliability - less breakage points, less visits to dealer, less headaches. Although with some reports of the HPFP issues, it's still relatively higher than BMW overall.
  2. Better interior design and feel: the materials and design of the RC interior is simply above the BMW's functional cockpit. There are more creature comforts in the RC, whereas the M4 felt more targeted to a driving experience.
  3. Better NVH: this is a really close call, but the sound deadening in the RC is seemingly better than the 4
  4. Lower cost of ownership: although not free, maintenance costs are lower than the 4, and repairs are half to 1/3rd the cost.
  5. Better resale: historically, Lexuses hold their value better than BMW.
  • Cons:
  1. Maintenance: Again, here I have to bring up the fact that there's no free maintenance.
  2. Strict warranty requirements: this is a hit or miss, but from my experience, Lexus tends to have higher requirements for warranty repairs than BMW, which (depends on how you read it) fixes anything and everything within the warranty period.
  3. Stock engine and exhaust note has more to be desired: the sound is lacking, reflecting a difference in target market. Can be corrected through custom or aftermarket.
  4. A less active aftermarket: there's simply more parts and companies making goodies for BMWs and M cars specifically.
It's definitely a hard choice. It really depends on your personal tastes and circumstances, as if you wanted a car for the very long term, then a Lexus will give you a more reliable and relatively cheaper ownership period. But the 4 is more fun in the twisties and is more driver oriented. I came from a 981 Porsche Cayman S (almost like you!) and a R35 GT-R immediately before making this choice, and after getting speed and nimbleness out of my system, I was looking for daily comfort and style - which I've found in the RC. Can't go wrong with either choice.

Last edited by Uda880; 11-10-17 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 11-10-17, 12:43 PM
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I'm not sure he was looking for a RCF. He mentioned the RC350. But, Thank you Uda880 for the very nice breakdown comparison of the RCF vs the bmw 4 series!!!
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Old 11-10-17, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Uda880 View Post
I was considering the same thing before I got my F. Here's my high level breakdown at the time, please remember that this focuses on the differences, and not the similarities between the two cars (mpg, lack of rear seat space, etc):

BMW 4/M4:
  • Pros:
  1. Faster quarter mile and 0 - 60 performance
  2. More torque from a stop
  3. More adjustability on suspension, steering, and throttle map
  4. Free maintenance
  • Cons:
  1. Lower relative reliability: BMW turbo engines are purely direct injected and requires intake valve walnut blasting. Along with this, are the standard BMW breakage points from window regulators, to lower control arm bushings, engine mounts, water pumps, etc.
  2. Higher parts costs: in my research, I looked at the parts costs from maintenance to repairs and everything seemed to be double or 2/3rds more than Lexus/Toyota parts resulting in higher final cost of ownership
  3. Relatively higher aftermarket part costs: I feel that this is almost a moot point, but most BMW parts cost more than for the RC, but have more availability - if that's your thing.
Lexus RC:
  • Pros:
  1. Better reliability - less breakage points, less visits to dealer, less headaches. Although with some reports of the HPFP issues, it's still relatively higher than BMW overall.
  2. Better interior design and feel: the materials and design of the RC interior is simply above the BMW's functional cockpit. There are more creature comforts in the RC, whereas the M4 felt more targeted to a driving experience.
  3. Better NVH: this is a really close call, but the sound deadening in the RC is seemingly better than the 4
  4. Lower cost of ownership: although not free, maintenance costs are lower than the 4, and repairs are half to 1/3rd the cost.
  5. Better resale: historically, Lexuses hold their value better than BMW.
  • Cons:
  1. Maintenance: Again, here I have to bring up the fact that there's no free maintenance.
  2. Strict warranty requirements: this is a hit or miss, but from my experience, Lexus tends to have higher requirements for warranty repairs than BMW, which (depends on how you read it) fixes anything and everything within the warranty period.
  3. Stock engine and exhaust note has more to be desired: the sound is lacking, reflecting a difference in target market. Can be corrected through custom or aftermarket.
  4. A less active aftermarket: there's simply more parts and companies making goodies for BMWs and M cars specifically.
It's definitely a hard choice. It really depends on your personal tastes and circumstances, as if you wanted a car for the very long term, then a Lexus will give you a more reliable and relatively cheaper ownership period. But the 4 is more fun in the twisties and is more driver oriented. I came from a 981 Porsche Cayman S (almost like you!) and a R35 GT-R immediately before making this choice, and after getting speed and nimbleness out of my system, I was looking for daily comfort and style - which I've found in the RC. Can't go wrong with either choice.
Thank you for your input Uda880. Not looking for the RCF, just an RC350 but most of your points apply i guess. The problem is that'll I'll be probably happy with the acceleration of an RCF but my worries are that I might find the RC350 too slow. In a text drive you can't really get a good feel for it.
I'll try to go this weekend and test drive both of them again.
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Old 11-10-17, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by louczar View Post
I'm not sure he was looking for a RCF. He mentioned the RC350. But, Thank you Uda880 for the very nice breakdown comparison of the RCF vs the bmw 4 series!!!
Originally Posted by keyframe13 View Post
Thank you for your input Uda880. Not looking for the RCF, just an RC350 but most of your points apply i guess. The problem is that'll I'll be probably happy with the acceleration of an RCF but my worries are that I might find the RC350 too slow. In a text drive you can't really get a good feel for it.
I'll try to go this weekend and test drive both of them again.
Haha, I get it. He wants a RC350 vs. 435i, but the points really still stand. Honestly, the maintenance costs of a RC350 is even lower, as the engine is a proven build. But I think the speed should be pretty adequate for most uses, unless you're always going to the track or street racing. Everyone has different uses for the cars, you have to choose one that matches your usage criteria.
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Old 11-10-17, 03:55 PM
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I personally just got out of my RC350 into a 4 Series and will be picking up a 340i next month. The beemer just drives way better than the RC, the power, and the handling straight from factory is on point. I'm not planning to own anything long term at the moment so I don't really care about BMW warranty and issue as I'll be switching it out after 3 years. Now if I were to own long term. I'll drive a honda till I'm ready to into the German cars again. Lexus is nice, I love everything about it except for the power and handling. Lexus really need to step it up.
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Old 11-11-17, 06:38 AM
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IMO: as mentioned go with what you have a passion to drive I wanted a car that you do not see on the road everyday.... in my area BMW/Mercs are a dime a dozen. So the RC 350 F-sport made sense and for all the reasons mentioned.

Although already planning to move to an RCF and/or LC500 in 3-years (love the V8)
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