if one were to get some type of forced induction, and were to upgrade the injectors to handle the additional power, what kind of engine management/ECU grade is needed. it was mentioned to me that an ECU upgrade wasnt necessary, but i believe this to be bull. will an s-afc do the trick or is something more advanced necessary. thanx in advance..........


Doc

 

you DEFINITELY need a new ecu because the fuel curve and fuel demands are much different on a boosted car. Ya, you could leave the stock ecu, but you won't get the most out of your power-adder. You also risk damaging the engine because the timing needs of a boosted car are different and the stock cpu may not be able to handle the timing demands.

Any recommendations on ECUs?

 

there is a definate need for a piggy back system, that what i was going to be doing in the SC3......however, i dont know if it would take the same one, due to the different motors.....wish i could help more

 

The largest problem that most folks running forced induction come into is a leaning out condition that causes pre-detonation and a the dreaded 'ping' (this sounds like marbles in a coffee can).

I run a standard 7.5 lb boost with my TRD supercharged Toyota Tacoma (3.4L). This bolt on system gives great power, but has shown some faults. An indepth discussion is available on Gadget Online.

Despite Gadgets maddening array of add ons, the best combination to manage the new boost has turned out to be the TMC 1.1 from Split Second which using only a very slight amount of engine timing retard has been quite effective. I run this in combination with a 160 TRD thermostat (which acts to also retard the timing, but I had the thermostat in first and then added the TMC which is fully adjustable) and have seen improved gains and a complete elimination of the lean out condition that can occur (i.e. pinging). I run this without any modification to my ECU (well, other than the TMC 1.1).

All newer FI Toyotas have a learning ECU. There is no reason for swapping out your ECU unless you are getting into extreme boost conditions or looking for a race car that will perform only at high RPMs and run like crap at lower RPMs and slower driving. The right thing to do is to pull the fuse for the engine ECU for about 30 minutes and pop it back in...the computer will reset and start relearning again. This is standard operating procedure for all S/C installations.

Other folks have completely upgraded their fuel system--including adding a Boost-a-pump (or completely replacing their fuel pump), upgrading the fuel pressure regulator, and the replacing fuel injectors with 305cc injectors (this is for the 3.4L engine). Lots of folks have had good luck with this pricey option as well.

Anyway thats my two cents...I drive the Tacoma nearly every day to work, yet it is easily a high 14 second 1/4 miler, this with stock 3.90 gears, and 32" BFGs...The bottom line is that an ECU upgrade is hardly neccessary except in the most extreme circumstances...

later

Bryan

 

That is weird. The stock ECU can relearn to counter the leaning effect. But I did not think that it's capable of supporting a supercharge without trigger any error code due to extreme leaning or ODBII safe limitations are not met. (even with learning capability, ODBII are federal standard, you can only learn as much, and big brother will step in and trigger the check engine light)

also, most piggy back ECU (aftermarket) can NOT fully control the factory ECU (by just adjusting MAP signal) BUT, it has showed good result when you modified this signal for forcing the factory ECU to relearn (that is why you get better HP number vs setup w/o piggy ECU)

I talked to several corperate techs of Nissan at Z club enthusiats national gathering, they are all agree on the most effective mod for enthusiasts w/o change the whole ECU is altering the MAP sensor signal.

I am very impressed seeing that you can push 100+HP through your stock setup (guessing on the 100)

(Also engine timming retart is done by the factory ECU when it detect knocking condition, should put the ECU into safe-mode, and trigger check engine light if the knocking does not stop) but you don't see this hee hee:eek: I guess you are not planning to keep your SC car for a long time? else I would be very impress with Toyota

 

The TMC 1.1 electrically alters engine retarding, other than that no other signals to the ECU are altered. The ECU just learns to live with the new set of signals coming to it. The ECU generates increasing voltage to increase the engine retard, the TMC 1.1 adds to this thereby increasing the retard or decreasing depending on your application.

As far as HP out of the Taco, I estimate I am probably at 260 or so up from the stock 190 HP. But for a fairly inexpensive factory authorized and warranteed modification (I get a full factory warranty with the S/C and it is treated as part of the original 50K mile powertrain warranty), it is the best $1900 I ever spent. As a matter of fact most dealers are blowing out stock on these, the 2.7L S/C and the 3.0 S/C....I have seen prices as cheap as $1700 in the last two weeks.

Also to comment on your statement about the factory ECU controlling retarding, it does, but many factors go into it. When your vehicle is first started up, everything is cold, especially the air charge going in...it is very dense. Additionally, on start up the engine is significantly retarded to force a hotter detonation and use more fuel....this warms the vehicle up quicker so that the FI system can become effecient. In carbeurated vehicles, you used to pull out the choke and cut the air going in, enriching the mixture...same difference. This is why I tried the TRD 160 Thermostat...make the engine run cooler, the ECU will dump more fuel in...see the method in the madness...haha

Anyway, the TMC 1.1 runs about $200 and at least for 3.4L S/Cs is the best and most cost effective way to manage the pinging issue with running a S/C...

later

Bryan

 

Dr. Rick:

I believe we may have spoken on the phone earlier on Friday. If not, yes, you are going to need some sort of inline ECU to handle your a/f levels & such in order to get the maximum performance out of any f/i setup (piggy back or otherwise).

 

marken,

you have a PM........

 

If you are spending that much money on the engine, why not get a standalone to controll it?

 

I have tried many stand alone ECU's and piggybacks sofar and "I still haven't found what I'm looking foor" ~ U2.

I have had experience with HKS F-Con S, GReddy E-Manage, Haltech E6K...

As of Monday my car will be at Motec with a M48 setup.

PectelUSA is pretty good also (so I've heard) but product support not all that...

 

V300, keep me posted on the motec stuff.

 

don't tell me your car is still not running???

 

This product shows real potential

http://www.aempower.com/ems.htm

Here is another company with something to help

http://www.splitsec.com/products/products.htm