Again you prove my point. You have no idea how an alternator works. Is all your basic electronic knowledge this limited?

Convince you to quit? No, never thought that would happen. Just don't be surprised when it turns out to be a lot less than what you expected.

 

Yeah, you're right. I got mixed up, although it really doesn't matter because,
the rectifier does it's best to convert the ac into dc but it isnt 100% efficient.

I know you like to split hairs so heres some prepackaged for you. If the alternator doesnt build up heat by its own operation then why the hell would they design it so it has a heatsink AND a fan to cool the entire assembly? I mean, just the amperage of the stator causes heat buildup in the windings. Electrons produce friction in a wire, friction causes heat, heat is vented out of the system....the one way diodes heat up from blocking electricity, heat is vented out of the system....do I need to go on? Unless you have a superconductor alternator chillin under your hood...it's wasting electricity.

And if your entire argument is that there isnt any wasted energy I've just proven you wrong. Regardless, like has been discussed before, if I can get colder air and MORE gas into the entire system, it will make up for whatever extra draw I am pulling on the alternator. How much more power is yet to be seen, but the theory still holds up JUST fine.

 

The whole alternator assembly is only around fifty to sixty percent efficient. I think his argument is not that there are no losses, but that your not taking advantage of those losses and you in fact cant. Let's say its only fifty percent efficient,and the electrical system needs a hundred units of power to run the systems and keep the battery charged. The alternator is then regulated to produce two hundred units, with 100 going down the drain, and 100 getting turned into dc and used by the systems. If you draw 20 units to run the system you want to add in to cool the intake, then the alternator will be regulated to produce 240 units, 120 units will be wasted, 120 will make it to dc with 100 going to the car system and 20 going to your system. I think that is the point he is trying to make, though he kind of attacks instead of explaining. It seems from your posts that you think you would take your twenty units from the original 100 wasted units, but that isn't how it works. You will task the engine to create 40 more units of electrical energy. 20 making it to you, and twenty lost in the conversion from mechanical to electrical.

 

Basically what kannon said is correct. The alternator is not 100% efficient, but the lost energy is not recoverable by means of using more electricity, that is simply putting more load on the engine than there would be been prior, then add in even more losses due to the extra output.

Jeff

 

I understand that and I've appreciated our convo. I just felt the need to prove that it was losing energy on its own.

The additional gas that will get entered into the system just may have enough punch to see some sort of gain. I just dont know....so I wanted to find out.

Like I've said before, this was really a see if I can do it with the intent of making SOMETHING marketable, I've accomplished half of that task and will just keep working on the other half in my spare time now. It may or may not work....it's really not THAT important to me. I wanted a product to start a business, so I made one. that's it.

My main focus now, is to get this final production copy out and produced in the appropriate materials. Keep the non rude comments coming, and I'll keep updating this thread.

I've got a big car show coming up this May 7, so I'm actually trying to get it all nice and tidy for that. I'll post some pics when its done.

 

Just a stupid question, on the stock intake tube there is a chamber on the side of it. Is that a helmholtz resonator style thing? And if It is, is it there to help push air in or cancel out some intake noise?

Looking forward to pics. And good luck with the show.

 

yeah I think it is a helmholtz resonator. I'm not certain its to push air in but it certainly makes things quieter.

That could be why I calculate the optimum intake length at right around 16 inches but the stock system is over 20. Perhaps that resonator quiets the intake and adjusts it so that the pressure waves reach the valves at the appropriate time.

More than likely though, since its a Lexus, it was made mostly to quiet it down.

 

Lexus has done both - there are some early V-8s that suffer with aftermarket intakes where the chamber is eliminated, but I don't think this is true for the 2GR/4GR engines because so many aftermarket intakes remove it without creating a dead spot in the power.

 

No, entire argument is not that the alternator is 100% efficient, it's definitely not that. But it's nothing like a turbo because a turbo runs off waste heat so it really does capitalize on something you'd otherwise be throwing away. kannon got it right. Sure there are losses in any system where you convert one form of energy into another, you just can't say the power to run the alternator is free, where with a turbo (except for the richer fuel requirement) the energy is pretty much free.

FWIW, something missed on the turbo discussion - size the injectors at RC Engineering's site and I guarantee you'll see the turbo/supercharged gasoline engine application is LESS efficient. BSFC is Brake Specific Fuel Consumption so it is a basic measure of efficiency. The lower the number, the less fuel you need to burn for the same output. It's critically important in things like generator sets or ocean going cargo ships because the accountants don't want to spend a dime more than they need to get the most for the fuel they burn.

Gasoline engines ALWAYS have better BSFC in a normally aspirated configuration. Just look at normal AFR for an NA engine at WOT - it's around 13.2:1 vs. forced induction at 12.3:1. The forced induction engine needs the extra fuel to help control detonation where the NA does not. Cooling the intake charge also means your balancing act between too little and too much heat will be a more intricate dance, and your fuel octane requirements may change - or you'll need water/meth injection and all the requisite pains carrying around more liquids brings in a car already nose heavy from the factory.

Compression ignition engines (Diesels) always have BETTER BSFC with forced induction because the more molecules of oxygen you stuff into the cylinder, the more complete the combustion will be AND the less energy is wasted heating up the engine with fuel since the heat from compressing the air minimizes the losses. None of this is news to anyone who has worked in the Diesel world.

If you don't want me to say something combative, don't say something patently false and base your argument on it. I've not said anything negative in this thread until you chastised someone for rightly calling you out on your error.

And yeah, way back in the days went dirt was still only a few days old, we ran our racebikes without alternators because you could run a full sprint race without the extra load of an alternator. It's just not practical for anything but sprint racing.

 

^-----ok then, anyway.....

I have goodies:



and one just cause:

 

this looks promising. i have a jet engine heat insulation blanket over my short ram intake pipe not even sure if it makes a diff,. looking forward to seeing where this one goes

 

500 miles no cel. Had to adjust maf sensor angle/ positioning some because of interference with a direct injection wire loom.

I'd still prefer to get a single piece instead of individual welds but it is what it is for now. Single piece can be done after autocad is finished which is also underway. I'll be taking it to the dyno the beginning of next month vs. stock vs. open air style.

Proofs in the pudding!

 

Ideal in my mind would be to take it to the track and test the intakes (keeping weather conditions as identical as possible.

trap speed will be more useful than a dyno for judging real hp gains for an intake IMHO.

The problem with a dyno for intake testing is you're testing something designed to be used in motion with the hood closed on a device where the car is standing still with the hood open. Not to say those results won't be interesting, but I think comparing trap speeds would be more indicative of any real world difference in power.

 

I might do that this weekend....need a stock filter.

 

Do you actually own a personal license of autocad?