Almost 2 years... where's the aftermarket.... really? RANT
LOL ... side draft carbs on a V-6 ... that's thinking outside the box (or I guess ... outside the V) ... LOL
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,327
Likes: 1
From: 溫哥華
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 11,030
Likes: 7
From: Windward, Oahu
Carburetors. For sure. DCOEs. So how to you plan to plug the hole in the cylinder head where the injector used to live?
Yeah, I did say the bottom end is probably good to at least 500hp, and if history is any teacher, more than likely it will easily take double the stock power.
All the whining about FI not being a good solution - what a load of crap! It's a fine solution when you do everything else right. If you're going from NA to FI, the list of things you need to do is long, but if you do it all, it will run very reliably. My Supra has tolerated 18 psi of boost for most of it's 145k mile life using 93 octane fuel on the factory build. It STILL makes 20 psi if I disconnect the wastegate actuator. So, all the unreliable stories just mean the guys doing the tuning aren't as good as the factory.
11.8:1 compression is a very limiting factor. Why? Because you can't bump it any higher on commonly available fuel and expect it to be reliable!
Here are some other issues that are perplexing the aftermarket:
1. Many of these aftermarket guys don't understand the engineering that went into the engine in the first place, so the "usual" stuff doesn't work well - like intakes, exhausts, and other bolt-on stuff. Cams are difficult at best because the VVTi program is emissions oriented, not performance oriented. Really significant changes to flow will upset the ECM because it has target values it expects to see, and when it doesn't it gets upset. Few US tuners have even begun to work with GDI, much less a system as complex as the port/GDI fuel system in the IS350, and no one is keen on doing anything stupid with the pistons or combustion chamber because their physical design is fundamental to how the engine runs in a far more complex way than anything else that's come down the pike. So, it just ain't easy no matter how you slice it. Since it's not easy, it surely won't be cheap.
2. MOST IMPORTANT No one is racing an ISx50 in any competitive series.
3. The real tuners I know personally have no interest in playing with the V-6 when the V-8 is just over the horizon. I have been hearing this for well over a year now. Fundamental rule: ALWAYS start with the fastest thing or you're only playing catch up.
4. Toyco does not promote engine modifications at all in any way for street cars. They won't even sell overbore pistons for blocks that can support it like the 2JZ. TRD is supposed to be the sporting end for Toyco owners, but TRD's "performance" parts are just rebranded stuff other people developed. So, knowing this, how cooperative do you think Lexus is with the aftermarket for anything really performance oriented?
I've also got one more reason - how many people have whined about the LMS supercharger's cost? How many aftermarket guys want to spend the time and effort to bring things to market for the 3GR when they know they will have to be expensive?
It's gonna be awhile. Don't turn blue waiting.
Yeah, I did say the bottom end is probably good to at least 500hp, and if history is any teacher, more than likely it will easily take double the stock power.
All the whining about FI not being a good solution - what a load of crap! It's a fine solution when you do everything else right. If you're going from NA to FI, the list of things you need to do is long, but if you do it all, it will run very reliably. My Supra has tolerated 18 psi of boost for most of it's 145k mile life using 93 octane fuel on the factory build. It STILL makes 20 psi if I disconnect the wastegate actuator. So, all the unreliable stories just mean the guys doing the tuning aren't as good as the factory.
11.8:1 compression is a very limiting factor. Why? Because you can't bump it any higher on commonly available fuel and expect it to be reliable!
Here are some other issues that are perplexing the aftermarket:
1. Many of these aftermarket guys don't understand the engineering that went into the engine in the first place, so the "usual" stuff doesn't work well - like intakes, exhausts, and other bolt-on stuff. Cams are difficult at best because the VVTi program is emissions oriented, not performance oriented. Really significant changes to flow will upset the ECM because it has target values it expects to see, and when it doesn't it gets upset. Few US tuners have even begun to work with GDI, much less a system as complex as the port/GDI fuel system in the IS350, and no one is keen on doing anything stupid with the pistons or combustion chamber because their physical design is fundamental to how the engine runs in a far more complex way than anything else that's come down the pike. So, it just ain't easy no matter how you slice it. Since it's not easy, it surely won't be cheap.
2. MOST IMPORTANT No one is racing an ISx50 in any competitive series.
3. The real tuners I know personally have no interest in playing with the V-6 when the V-8 is just over the horizon. I have been hearing this for well over a year now. Fundamental rule: ALWAYS start with the fastest thing or you're only playing catch up.
4. Toyco does not promote engine modifications at all in any way for street cars. They won't even sell overbore pistons for blocks that can support it like the 2JZ. TRD is supposed to be the sporting end for Toyco owners, but TRD's "performance" parts are just rebranded stuff other people developed. So, knowing this, how cooperative do you think Lexus is with the aftermarket for anything really performance oriented?
I've also got one more reason - how many people have whined about the LMS supercharger's cost? How many aftermarket guys want to spend the time and effort to bring things to market for the 3GR when they know they will have to be expensive?
It's gonna be awhile. Don't turn blue waiting.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 11,030
Likes: 7
From: Windward, Oahu
This isn't a domestic.
The crank was forged at the factory. You can't buy a Scion/Toyota/Lexus with a cast crank. They just don't exist.
The rods were forged and shot peened at the factory. No rod modifications necessary, and the rod and main bearings are fit to +/-0.0001" tolerances.
Stock 2JZ long blocks have produced 900 hp for the turbo and 600+ hp for the NA, even with a horrible band-aid thicker headgasket.
Toyota builds fuel systems for 180% of rated power. They will never run out of fuel stock, and will normally nearly double stock power without any mods at all. That includes pumps, injectors, rails, and regulators.
Stock cast pistons and rings have proved reliable in practically any Toyota engine worth modifying to double (and in some cases triple) stock power.
The biggest worry I have in the 2GR is the tiny cam chains they used to minimize weight and noise. I am seriously concerned that putting bigger cams and stiffer springs in a 2GR would seriously compromise their longevity. But with FI, I don't really need to worry about cams until I have overlap problems from VVTi. If I want more NA, then cams and port work are where I have to start.
And the OEM throttlebody is quite a ways off of needing enlargement. Again, this isn't your average domestic.
The crank was forged at the factory. You can't buy a Scion/Toyota/Lexus with a cast crank. They just don't exist.
The rods were forged and shot peened at the factory. No rod modifications necessary, and the rod and main bearings are fit to +/-0.0001" tolerances.
Stock 2JZ long blocks have produced 900 hp for the turbo and 600+ hp for the NA, even with a horrible band-aid thicker headgasket.
Toyota builds fuel systems for 180% of rated power. They will never run out of fuel stock, and will normally nearly double stock power without any mods at all. That includes pumps, injectors, rails, and regulators.
Stock cast pistons and rings have proved reliable in practically any Toyota engine worth modifying to double (and in some cases triple) stock power.
The biggest worry I have in the 2GR is the tiny cam chains they used to minimize weight and noise. I am seriously concerned that putting bigger cams and stiffer springs in a 2GR would seriously compromise their longevity. But with FI, I don't really need to worry about cams until I have overlap problems from VVTi. If I want more NA, then cams and port work are where I have to start.
And the OEM throttlebody is quite a ways off of needing enlargement. Again, this isn't your average domestic.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 11,030
Likes: 7
From: Windward, Oahu
Gonna have to call Kenmore (Sears) tomorrow cuz i want a mini-fridge in the rear armrest for a bottle of Cristal
Lots more to the aftermarket than just performace parts 
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,680
Likes: 8
From: Oregon
I agree that some people may have misconceptions as to what some mods actually do. Many people think BBK's provide shorter braking distances. They usually don't but they do provide other inarguable performance benefits such as heat capacity/resistance to fade. They also add some serious bling to the car. I wouldn't call that 'worthless.'
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 11,030
Likes: 7
From: Windward, Oahu
LOL we all know ppl with supras that put out that kind of power, i myself have owned a mkIII 7mgte w/421hp to the rear, all these guys are uber rich and/or own shops. They still have to keep rebuilding them... or their just parked and taken out only for shows... blah blah blah... im not impressed... which is why i never responded... there is a practical side to tuning and thats all im trying to say. Bang for the buck and streetable, realisticly 350-400 is all you'd want for a daily. Cant put pump gas in a 900hp supra and drive it around everyday can you... Im talking everyday and your talking the extremes...
*im done, over with this, we'll just keep going in circles*
Yes your right...
*im done, over with this, we'll just keep going in circles*
Yes your right...
