lets bring this one back. im still wondering about the headers and their ability to hold up. why is s&s givin all of us a hard time?

 

I just had mine installed about a month ago, and yes I still love em.

1. Have your S&S Headers cracked or not?
No they have not.

2. If you have had them re-welded, let us know how they are holding up now?
Nope.

3. How many miles per year do you drive (approximately)?
Please; I live in the Atl. Well over 10K say 15.

4. Do you race/drag race your car?
Yes I track and drag race my car...going Sunday actually.

5. Which batch did you get?
2nd or third batch if they had a third.

 

What exactly do you mean by "why is s&s givin all of us a hard time?"

Please refrain from making negative statements unless you give your specific first hand experience.

Have you personally been in any way given a hard time by S&S?

Do you know specifically of a person that has been given a hard time by S&S?
(and I do not mean something you read about)

If so please post specific details.

If not please do not make this kind of a post.

S&S is not a perfect company and there has been some legitimate concerns posted but it is not fair to S&S and quite frankly the entire community who stands to benefit from a quality product or accurate information good or bad to simply make unfounded negative statements. Rumors and gossip should be eliminated and true and accurates situations should be discussed.

I am aware of at least 2 customers who recieved headers in an early run that had a small area or two that needed to be welded. There have been a number of people that have had first run headers eventually crack. Some of these people have returned a cracked header to S&S and had them replaced under warranty. Some simply had the crack fixed locally.

Because of the crack situation S&S made changes including thicker metal in the problem area and extra welding. I am unaware of any cracking problem with the upgraded design.

Bottom line: these headers are the only proven exhaust power increase parts that I am aware of. They increase power, torque and responsiveness. The vast majority of the people using them report very good results. It seems that overall this is a very good product and a very reasonable price. So, let's make sure and keep the discussions accurate and on point so that we can continue to have options for increasing the power of these cars.

 

mine just crarked, but since i had them much longer than a year, no warranty. However; only put about 14k on headers when they craked. It does suck that they have this issue, but like jbrady said, they are the only ones on the market and many companies go through a trial an error stage on new products. It sucks, but at the end it's still worth the money i paid. It's a little diffrent for me since I do most of the work my self, so i do see how other people would want to stay away.

 

If I am not mistaken I believe JPI out of Dallas is making Headers. Mine seem to be holding up rather well, but it has been awhile since I looked!

 

You are correct, but they are not out just yet, so if you wanted headers right this minute, your only option is S&S. If your headers cracked, you would be able to tell without looking. The sound of a exhaust leak is horroble. Do you have the first batch? I think those are the only ones that have the cracking issue.

 

The JPI headers are out, 'speedaddic' has a set. He got the same hp gains (17wrhp) but he gained 8 tq. I had posted 17 lbs tq, but my best was 18 lbs.

 

I don't think they are out on the market yet, but I may be wrong. I would like to see them dyno on a NA GS, I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

Yes, I posted somewhere that I have seen one set in person at JPI. They are VERY similar in design to the S&S except they use a larger pipe size (1.625" vs 1.50"). The stock exhaust port size is roughly 1.3" in diameter which is almost exactly the same as the INSIDE diameter of a .065" wall thickness 1.5" header tube.

On the S&S headers I specified 1.5" pipe with an expansion at the head flange to 1.625" which requires the 1.5" pipe be expanded to meet this size. I had this done to make certain that there was no interference at the head. This expansion creates a slight lip which is an AR (anti-reversion) dynamic that a number of top designers use when designing a part for peak torque. The 1.5" keeps velocity high which promotes the gas in moving away from the cylinder and reduces it from reverting (reversion) as port pressures and dynamics change.

OK, what does the above mean? The S&S design is to promote low and mid power torque and response while supporting peak power. The JPI design uses 1.625" tubing (inside diameter 1.495") which will slow the velocity as it leaves the port. For the above reasons I felt this was not as good of a choice as 1.5" (the S&S could easily be built with 1.625" but are specifically built with 1.5").

Now, there are at LEAST 2 important testing considerations. Dyno tests are good but with the Lexus transmissions very hard to get numbers below 3500rpm. The low to mid torque, power and responsiveness (from cruise RPM up to 4000rpm or so) is just NOT measured on dyno runs. Dyno runs will show peak power and torque numbers (above 3500rpm). I look forward to seeing how the JPI headers perform compared to the S&S headers on the dyno. However, we will also need good unbiased reports on how the cars FEEL in terms of drivability and responsiveness on a daily basis to get a full idea on how the 2 designs compare. We must always remember that we are driving on the street where the VAST majority of time we are not using full throttle but in fact are in the all important MID rpm range.

 

The only way to get real accurate results of one VS the other, both sets of headers need to be installed on the same car and dyno, same day back to back. If im not mistaken some have dyno more TQ than Lexizm with the S&S headers

 

I've had mine for over a year....first batch.

S&S sent me a replacement after the 1st one cracked and I added weld to the replacement. I love the headers.

I do not take may car to the track.

Thanks again to JBrady for the MASSIVE amount of time he invested to make this project a reality.

A few questions....

1. are the improved S&S and the JPI headers available at this time?

I look forward to getting a new set at some point in the future and would like to see dyno results comparing the two.

2. for those with the S&S improved headers, any cracks yet? are these the 2nd or 3rd batch?

 

Howdy,
I will chime in from what I've learned through the first headers that we made.
1. There could be a lot more room to growth(as far as flow wise)
2. On Thomas's car. There are many variables: The intake manifold has been modified, it's supercharged etc.
3. The amount of time and money we have invested in the first set of headers are way way too much.
4. To make them into full production, I would have to committed to 50 set of headers.
5. Please keep this in mind. Each dyno numbers are different. You might get 18 hp from this dyno but 10 hp gain from a different dyno. We want to compare apples, Let use the same dyno, same condition, temp etc. I'm not out to compete with S&S, but after seeing a lot of defects. I want to step up and make a set to test.
6. The material from S&S and JPI headers are totally differently. S&S used a thinner wall material.
7. Is JPI going to mass produce the headers? At this point, NO. Unless I have some committed buyers.
I hope all the questions have been answered.
Regards,
JPI

 

thanks Jason.....

 

Jason,

Thanks for your imput here. I hope you did not feel that I was being critical of you or JPI in any way. Quite the opposite. I am very impressed with all that you have done and contributed to all things Lexus performance.

I am also sorry to hear that at this point you are not planning to do a production run of your headers. I like having as many options for performance as possible. I also was looking forward to a back to back JPI vs S&S dyno test but I understand the effort and time requirements.

I like that you chose stainless for your headers and would prefer that for the S&S but that would have raised the price so high that we probably would never have gotten the initial run of 20 produced. Your post should help others understand just HOW hard it is to get something to market.

I would like to see your headers produced. Of course I would suggest 1.5" pipe size as I state above.

 

Maybe we can there is one person with the only set of JPI headers, speedaddict. Maybe someone can loan him some S&S headers. I doubt it will happend, but it is an option