SAFC II question
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Lead Lap
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: ONTARIO
SAFC II question
Hello, I recently contacted Mahdavi motorsport and They said if you are planning "only" to run 500 RWHP or less with a TT KIT (GS400), it is OK to use SAFC as your engine management? is this true? I always thought a stand alone ie. Haltech was the only option. Please advise turbo gurus..
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
Mahdavi knows their stuff - but I have always wondered the same thing.
At 500rwhp and no control of timing - I am not in 100% agreement
If I was pushing 500 to the wheels I would want better management than an SAFC.
Jonny
At 500rwhp and no control of timing - I am not in 100% agreement
If I was pushing 500 to the wheels I would want better management than an SAFC.
Jonny
Lead Lap
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: WI
I've always wondered that....I've been pondering a direct port 100 shot wet kit for quite awhile and was not sure if an AFC will cut it. I know the wet system should leave the A/F nearly perfect if tuned correctly anyway, but I would like the extra adjustability. I am more looking at 400whp also so if Mahdavi says it will do it, I trust them.
the safc2 has 2 datafiles available..effectively you can have 2 fuel maps and switch them on the fly. before i went to the gte swap, i had a 120 dry shot (drilled out Zex) on my 1st gen. I tuned the #2 datafile for the spray and it worked out great. NA 178rwhp, 165tq, on the naawwwss it was 265rwhp, 280 tq. Dead flat A/f at 11.0:1. Whenever i went to the track or got a race while out cruising i just switched over before i took off.
i have been saying for years and doing it too.. if you use the safc2 for boost on an NA car, then convert it to read boost and switch maps based on load, not the TPS.
i have been saying for years and doing it too.. if you use the safc2 for boost on an NA car, then convert it to read boost and switch maps based on load, not the TPS.
I would have to say you would be better off going haltech or possibly a Vpc over an safc. Problem with the afc is that your going to be retaining the Maf on the Gs. The Maf can only read so much airflow and is not going to allow for great tuning. If you have the means to go TT on a Gs4 you should be able to come up with an extra $600 and AT LEAST do a Haltech F10x. It will allow for true fine tuning of the setup were the Maf/Afc combo may not have enough range depending on what size injectors you are going with. If you are stretching your money out so far that you cannot absolutly come up with another $1k or so you shouldnt do your TT setup yet. There are ALWAYS going to be little issues here and there, they get expensive, ask anyone who has done a custom setup before.
jamie and I have been turboed for well over a year and SC'd before that. Both setups were and are running SAFC2. I am still running it and have no problems. I also had concerns with the timing, but once they hooked it up to the computer and made dyno runs it was apparent that timing was not a problem. I have a single turbo setup and have run 17psi without any problem.
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A haltech f10x is $675 online. What does an Afc have to do with timing? I assume you are referring the the fact it doesnt have timing control which is correct but neither does the F10x. The difference between the two is that the Haltech will eliminate the Maf sensor and run it's own dedicated Map sensor. It is MUCH better for boosted applications, especially those that are not factory forced induction. If you run an afc on a factory maf car with larger injectors it may not be able to provide enough range of adjustment to get you exactly where you want to be (depending on the size of injectors).
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EV ftw!!!
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Lake Ontario
Hello, I recently contacted Mahdavi motorsport and They said if you are planning "only" to run 500 RWHP or less with a TT KIT (GS400), it is OK to use SAFC as your engine management? is this true? I always thought a stand alone ie. Haltech was the only option. Please advise turbo gurus..
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
With respect to the timing I was saying that basically the stock computer is handling it okay and that there was no problem. I realize that the SAFC doesnt mess with timing but someone expressed concern in a post further up.
The Haltech may be 675, but once you start adding sensors, installation, maybe harnesses and dyno time my guess is that you will be much higer in actual cost.
But hey I could be wrong, it wouldnt be the first time.
A Map would probably be better but I also know that the stock MAF works fine.
The Haltech may be 675, but once you start adding sensors, installation, maybe harnesses and dyno time my guess is that you will be much higer in actual cost.
But hey I could be wrong, it wouldnt be the first time.
A Map would probably be better but I also know that the stock MAF works fine.
The Haltech comes with sensors, it wouldn't cost anymore on the dyno than properly tuning an afc. The safc does not affect timing unless you are considering that the car may pull timing on a really bad tune. I.e- Knock induced but really that would be more afected by temp. and octane than anything else. I'm not saying an Afc is trash, I have one in my car, it is just limited in what it can do. If this guy wants to go Twin Turbo Gs400, he is going to be spending some cash, why skimp on one of the most important parts of the whole install fuel managment, that makes absolutly no sense. In THIS application an afc would be a poor choice. In other applications where slight tuning is needed than fine, an Afc may be enough. I dont know your guy's setups on your cars, maybe it is enough for your application.
Thats what I was getting at, if you are dropping the amount of cash to go custom TT on a Gs400 you shouldnt skimp on fuel managment. If your are barely able to scrape together enough for the turbo setup you shuld wait until you have some backup cash. From the sounds of it you guys also have custom setups, I'm sure you can agree that there are always little things that cost a few here and there, next thing you know you've added up quite a bill. Fuel is NOT a place to skimp on a good setup.
when the safc2 is used to control larger than stock injectors (at least in a hot wire/maf system) the reduced load readings cause the ecu to read and direct the engine functions from a different portion of the map. I dont like the TPS switch that the SAFc2 is designed to be used with anyway...much different load characteristics at 3000rpm in 5th, vs 3000rpm in 1st or 2nd... with TPS switching, you get the same fuel either way, no matter what it NEEDS.
I digress... the correct answer for this guy is to get a MAP ECU or something that will have total control. The Haltech doesnt sound like a bad deal at all. The MicroTech2 is supposed to be pretty good at a low cost too.