JohnEd

iTrader: (1)

Experts or Experienced,

I have a brand new to me 93 SC400. It has developed a serious problem. It floods badly and won't start after sitting all night. I mean gas drips out of the exaust. After letting it sit for a few hours on the charger I can usually get it firing on 3 cylinders by keeping the throttle floored. It stumbles and coughs for 5 minutes and then, as if a switch is thrown, smooths right out and cleans out nicely. What a ride!!! I love this car.

I am not a mech. and don't make any claims. I did R&R the starter because I heard a dry and growling bearing. Who new the starter was in the center of the engine under the entire intake and fuel injection system. I mean, really! Well with the help of 62 steps of ALLDATA instruction she fired on the third crank and went to a sweet idle. Short lived joy, however. The intermittant cold start problem has become simply the cold start problem. It is predictable and serious. She starts, if she does, and runs like an engine with a stuck choke butterfly. Can anybody out there give me any pointers on ths problem? Please!

Would the MAP sensor be able to do this? My only thought was that the fuel pressure was jacked up for some reason and went normal when the engine got warm. I don't have the pressure rig and I have had to put her in the Lexus shop. So far these people seem like a great bunch. Time will tell but they seem especially considerate. Last month when I went in for an idler pully the parts woman said that in two and a half years I was "her FIRST retail customer". This town crawls with Lexus. And I was the first person that bought a part to install himself? This forum sure doesn't contribute to my feeling unique in any way.

I know this must seem a mundane problem with all the chatter about installing turbos and superchargers. Appreciate any help or suggestions.

Thank You

JohnEd

SUPRMSC

iTrader: (7)

First things first. Use an air compressor and blow out your MAF, it can be dirty and reading incorrectly.

Next do a general tune up, starting with toyota sparkplugs. And make sure you are using 91/93 octane, nothing less.

Tammy

Purchase a MAF cleaner or brake cleaner to clean the MAF. Too high air pressure may damage the wires and sensing bulb.

Your injectors may need a cleaner. Many have recommended the BG 44K brand.

http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html

It should be locally available at auto stores; or perhaps at your local Toyota dealer, where I have seen it sold.

JohnEd

iTrader: (1)

Guys,

Thank you for your posts. I don't know what that sensor is (map) but I think it must be like the item on the old Datsun L JETronics (Bosh) that was on the 280 Z. I tore that down to pieces and cleaned the contact of a film potentiometer to cure a "jerky" engine problem. I'll find it in Alldata.

The good news is that I visited the bad girl (400) at the Lex shop. They had checked out the MAP Sensor using the "hand over hand" proceedures in the factory manual. That and other major items were all ok. The service manager and three mechs all told me it was a mystery but they thought it was an ignition problem. I find it hard to argue with the pros and I didn't but I did express confusion as to why severe flooding would be associated with the cold start problem. It isn't hard to grasp when you think of it....fuel doesn't ignite, crank on, fuel runs out the exaust pipe and stinks up the vacinity. The fuel was a symptom as it were.

Cranked her cold and she limped along on what was seemed like 4 cylinders. CLUE! Pulled a coil wire and she started and ran about the same as before but maybe smoother clearly on 4 cylinders. Reversed the disconnected coil and tried to duplicate the problem with only the left bank. It could barely run on 2 or 3 cylinders and was erratic. Haven't proven this yet but the problem is ignition and in the left bank. I will swap the coils tomorrow and try to get the problem to follow the coil. If not, trading caps and then rotors should be the end of it.

I thought this was an interesting problem and one to remember. I will post the final result when I get it sorted out. Tomorrow Wifey goes into the hospital and will be a busy day. Maybe Saturday.

Thanks again for your help.

JohnED

SUPRMSC

iTrader: (7)

Another suggestion is to definitely check your timing

Supra Dr

iTrader: (14)

Finish checking out the ignition 1st - pull a few plugs too & besure their not worn out.

Another possibility is you have 1 or more injectors bleeding down when the engines
off. The excess fuel is fouling the plugs on start up & as the plugs clear off it runs better.

This was a exsisting problem BEFORE you had the intake off right?

JohnEd

iTrader: (1)

Guys,

This is not a gotcha sort of thing. This problem was most certainly there BEFORE I replaced the starter and I think it might have been part of the reason the starter failed and why the prev. owner had installed a brand new VERY large battery. These are the things I did to trouble-shoot this very real and disabling intermitant problem.

Replaced the plugs with Bosch Plat. Toyotas will be next time.

Checked that the little screw in the center of the fuel pressure dampner was staying extended for hours after the start attempt. This proved that an injector was not hanging open and that I had fuel pressure.

I did a compression check. 120psi plus or minus 3psi. That is blueprinted to me. That also proved that my cam timing was ok. What should I get for a 93 SC400? Can't trust the gauges for an absolute reading......but.

I checked the valve clearance and every valve was within tolerance except two exaust valves and they were 1 thousandth OVER. I'm not going after that and the Lex mechanic said I made a good decision. I'll take care of them when I install the new cams. (Maybe on the cams) I love this car.

I checked the spark timing and verified that all plugs were seeing high voltage. The Lexus mechanic explained that I would see the timing light trigger even if the voltage was very low and wasn't reliably firing the plugs. That was new info for me. He added that my high rpm miss was also an indication of ignition problem. When I took her to them I was empty of ideas and they were so very kind to take her to only troubleshoot and bill me only for that labour. He put me back on the trail with a whole new set of ideas even if he didn't "fix the problem". I gladly paid that bill. They asked that I give them a call after I found the problem and share the info with them.

The maf sensor was blown out and wrung out with an ohm meter. Proved good.

I always us high test although it is only 92 octane. Unless I go out to the airport, that is the max around here.

With our temps in the 90's I was having no problem with starting. I packed a baggie full of ice around the coil of the right bank. Started. I chilled the other coil and still it started right up. I packed the upper igniter module and she still felt fine as frog's hair. I took the igniters off of their bracket and reversed them so the left bank was on top and packed it with ice. She refused to start. Eurecka! I put a baggie of warm water on the little scamp of an igniter and she fired right up. Chilled a second time and nada. Found the problem. $367 from Lexus and $40 off this board and I had three sources to choose from. God bless this place.

I am not a mechanic but I can somtimes get "system smart" and get through. That starter R&R was not supposed to be possible for any but a professional and I had two professionals tell me that. It is 61 steps in the manual from start to finish. She fired on the 4th turn and went to smooth idle. I was delighted but I had one serious problem. I could not get the starter bolts out without bending wrenches to remove the bolts.... took hours! I knew I would NEVER get them back in so I drilled out the threaded/tapped holes in the new starter ($135 at Schucks and $360 from Lexus) and put long cap bolts through the block holes and spun the nuts up tight with an air wrench. It worked! The chief mech at the Lex dealer quietly asked me "how did you get the starter bolts in"? I told him my story and he looked thoughtful andsaid "that would work". I told him I was not able to get the head connecting water duct removed so I couldn't get to the bolts to turn them in and tighten. He offered that his shop couldn't get that part out either and the book only worked with a engine that was out of the car. "So how do you guys do it" I asked. He told me the undocumented proceedure, but known in Lexus circles, was to drop the trans 5 inches and go at the bolts from under the car "blind" with a five foot extension and a mech on top of the engine with a screw driver manipulating the "u" jointed socket on the bolts. Pick your way to go. I didn't feel nearly so stupid after that conversation.

I got back to the shop and received an enthusiastic "Thank you for getting back. That was really inventive".

Whew! How the time flys when you are having fun. When I first posted this problem I had the razor to my wrists and was out on the third floor balcony. Thank you all for you helpful advice and good intension. It means a lot to know that there are people that care enough to get involved and are sympathetic. Payback is somthing I have always relished and looked forward to receiving as well as giving. Please feel free to call on me for comments or even just to share you good news and I promise to be as helpful as you have been to me for others.

jegrabe@efn.org

Play safe and hard.

John

Supra Dr

iTrader: (14)

Nice job bud, great diagnostic skills, need a job? Thats the way to do it hunt the
problem down & try ONLY 1 thing @ a time.

CLRH2O

Hey JohnEd,

I know this is now 5 months removed from your previous posts and resolution. But I'm hoping I can ask you a few questions about the info you've provided. I do all my own work to the cars I own up to the point at which I reach block internals - from there the pros are far better suited and I leave that to them if forbid, it's actually needed.

You mention that the point at which you discovered exactly what the cause of your Cold-Start problem was, you were icing and warming the "Igniters"... I know this will sound like a ridiculously stupid question and I feel like I should know it already - but what are ignitors, where are they located, what do the look like, what is their purpose in terms of the starter and/or it's solenoid (which I'm aware pushes the starters own drive shaft outward to temporarily mate with the flywheel and crank the engine for start up while battery electricity is applied).

I guess what I'm really getting at is, this is the first V8 engine I've worked on myself - and although I have loads of experience with US 4-Cylinders and 2 Mazda MX-6 V-6's I'm only aware of the starter having two main parts, the cranking motor and the engagement solenoid. Which forces me to ask the who what where for ignitors.

As type this I have to assume that even though the "Ignitors" by name would logically indicate it to be the parts that produce the spark which "Ignites" the gasoline that's been injected into the cylinders....they are in fact NOT, as this is the job of the Spark Plugs....

Please excuse my ignorance - I'm here to learn and must be properly educated before I get into the engine bay zen of fixing my own cold start problem on my 1993 SC400 with 108k Miles.

Currently I live in Tampa Florida, and while the temperature in the winter is generally in the 70F range, recently it's been dipping into the 50-60 range and sure enough, I've been left precariously close to stranded on now 4 occasions throughout the past 3 days.

Although I've only owned this car for a month and a half and it's been *Sluggish* to start/turn randomly ever since I bought it. And sometimes...*just* sometimes it starts up SOOOO strongly it sounds like the starter is going to explode out of the top of the hood it turns the flyewheel so fast. I'd say that happens once every 10 starts or so. As for what happening now though, it's never taken more than 5 to 6 revolutions to fire up and go and it's NEVER given me the "CLickunnk.............. then nothing" until the temp drop so this is either an aggravation of an existing ailment or a truly new development for the starting process of my SC.

So here I am, truly confused about where to start. The wikkid strong starts randomly interspersed in there last month are really the only wild card that makes me scratch my head... but it does seem that all roads are pointing to the dreaded starter.

Thank you very much in advance for you insight and explanation of all of this if you have the time. I'd like to get the words from you as they will come from someone with hands on first person experience of not only the diagnosis, but the repair as well.

JohnEd

iTrader: (1)

Clear,

Happy to comment.


Hey JohnEd,

I know this is now 5 months removed from your previous posts and resolution. But I'm hoping I can ask you a few questions about the info you've provided. I do all my own work to the cars I own up to the point at which I reach block internals - from there the pros are far better suited and I leave that to them if forbid, it's actually needed.

You mention that the point at which you discovered exactly what the cause of your Cold-Start problem was, you were icing and warming the "Igniters"... I know this will sound like a ridiculously stupid question and I feel like I should know it already - but what are igniters, where are they located, what do the look like, what is their purpose in terms of the starter and/or it's solenoid (which I'm aware pushes the starters own drive shaft outward to temporarily mate with the flywheel and crank the engine for start up while battery electricity is applied).

Comment

History:

Once upon a time spark was caused by "points opening". Real cave man stuff. In the 60's a modern marvel appeared in the auto world. It was called "the transistorized ignition system". The beauty was that the trans. system used the points as a "SIGNAL" to control a transistor that carried the high current for the coil. With that the points lasted a very long time and timing stayed on and spark plugs lasted longer. Everybody was happy except the racers. The trans. sys still had the design characteristic of having the high voltage roll off at high rpm. The more cylinders, the faster the pulses at any rpm and the worse the performance. Shortly thereafter the CD (capacitor discharge) system was invented. CD is what you find nearly everywhere. It has voltage that doesn't fall off at high rpm. The plug voltage is way higher than it used to be and everyone is way happier. CD is expensive to manufacture and , because it has so many parts/circuits it fails more often. Even at that it is very reliable due to "over engineering".

Lex went back wards and brought back the trans. ignition system for the SC. Go figure? Actually there are two ignition systems on my SC400. One distributor sits on the end of each head and has 4 plugs attached to it. The trans system works well because it is only working at the rate of a four cylinder engine so at 6.5K RPM the igniter fires 3.250K RPM, Half. There is an igniter for each coil and distributor so there are two systems.

I guess what I'm really getting at is, this is the first V8 engine I've worked on myself - and although I have loads of experience with US 4-Cylinders and 2 Mazda MX-6 V-6's I'm only aware of the starter having two main parts, the cranking motor and the engagement solenoid. Which forces me to ask the who what where for igniters. The igniter modules are located on the top of the drivers side front fender under the hood. They are about the size of a deck of cards and have a connector on the end. The igniter switches the current on and off in the coil and this causes the spark.

The igniter has nothing to do with the starter and is not in that circuit. Here is the rub there though...If the igniter is on the fritz and won't start the car the starter gets used a LOT and wear is accelerated. If your starter is not disengaging after the engine first starts you have a serious problem and you may cause yourself some real grief. The BENDIX GEAR in the starter serves let the flywheel spin without spinning the starter. Even if you keep you starter engaged with the key, it should not spin up after the engine starts. If your isn't disengaging it could spin the starter so fast it will explode and secondarily it will shred the flywheel.

By a years subscription to ALLDATA for $24 and print out the instructions for the starter R&R. Shucks has the starter for $135 with a warranty. Get the new one not the rebuilt as the new is cheaper and has a longer warranty.

Let me get back to you on troubleshooting the cold start. PM me again.

John

As type this I have to assume that even though the "igniters" by name would logically indicate it to be the parts that produce the spark which "Ignites" the gasoline that's been injected into the cylinders....they are in fact NOT, as this is the job of the Spark Plugs....

Please excuse my ignorance - I'm here to learn and must be properly educated before I get into the engine bay zen of fixing my own cold start problem on my 1993 SC400 with 108k Miles.

Currently I live in Tampa Florida, and while the temperature in the winter is generally in the 70F range, recently it's been dipping into the 50-60 range and sure enough, I've been left precariously close to stranded on now 4 occasions throughout the past 3 days.

Although I've only owned this car for a month and a half and it's been *Sluggish* to start/turn randomly ever since I bought it. And sometimes...*just* sometimes it starts up SOOOO strongly it sounds like the starter is going to explode out of the top of the hood it turns the flywheel so fast. I'd say that happens once every 10 starts or so. As for what happening now though, it's never taken more than 5 to 6 revolutions to fire up and go and it's NEVER given me the "CLickunnk.............. then nothing" until the temp drop so this is either an aggravation of an existing ailment or a truly new development for the starting process of my SC.

So here I am, truly confused about where to start. The wicked strong starts randomly interspersed in there last month are really the only wild card that makes me scratch my head... but it does seem that all roads are pointing to the dreaded starter.

Thank you very much in advance for you insight and explanation of all of this if you have the time. I'd like to get the words from you as they will come from someone with hands on first person experience of not only the diagnosis, but the repair as well.[/QUOTE]

CLRH2O

Crazy organization of answers to questions - but I've gotten it all digested

I'll subscribe to ALLDATA this evening. Next I need to take a look at a few connections on my SC. namely the plug locations coming into and out of the igniter pack and a few other obvious cable connections where electricity is being directed. Always start with the small stuff right? From there it's finding the company named "Shucks" if I determine that I in fact do (and it's very likely) need a new starter. Yes, I whole heartily agree to buy new btw, and that's just what I'll do if I get one. Happen to have the website address for the company Shucks?

The last few things I'd like to ask about are specific to the process of removing the starter it's self. Open the link below in an additional browser window and then come back here to read each of these questions as one by one they will relate to a part or image on that other page:

http://www.lextreme.com/starter.html

From what I can tell there are a few images that might have come from the resource you urged me to use above about this process on that page. Although not all of the images for every part of the process I'm sure they were provided, (and I'll most certainly be printing out everything) the most important are probably there.

So, starting at the top with the tools section. Where is the best place to get the first set of snap on ratcheting wrenches? Sears I'd guess? Then next, what he has labeled as "2. Ratcheting with Flex head" I'm guessing actually means Ratcheting wrench with a flex head. What size would that wrench be then? 14mm?

In your brief overview of some of the process you yourself went through to R&R your own starter you said "I knew I would NEVER get them back in" when talking about the two main starter attaching bolts that fit in back to front. What prevents them from being used / If they came out entirely during removal what blocks them from going back in? Still on that same question, going back to the other page with the photos there, looking at the 4th color photograph down with the "EGR" labeled in red - is that what blocks them from going back in? Or is it something else? I notice that there also appears to be a black plastic or maybe metal cowling of some sort overhanging the area and all these parts in those photos?, is that right or an optical illusion?

Another thing you talked about as being a royal PITA and overall making the process that much harder to complete was the "head connecting water duct" and the fact that it could not be removed. What does it look like (is it shown in the color photos on that other page were referencing)? In regard to that part you mentioned that the the mechs at the Lexus shop agreed it could not be removed while the engine was in the car. So on the page were looking at about this process where step 5 refers to removing a 'rear fluid bridge':

"5. Remove the Rear radiator fluid bridge. 4 12 mm, two in the front and two in the rear."

Is this the same part you were talking about? Did they find a way to do it, And if so - where/at which step do those instructions explain to the reader how to remove said part (the Rear radiator fluid bridge)? Are they (this other website and instructions) talking about removing this part that cant be removed? Maybe the instructions are for use while the engine is removed completely from the vehicle? It's quite confusing on that point.

I guess I could ask more questions about the process but not doubt some will be obvious when I'm in there while others might be answered by the ALLDATA info....So I'll leave it at these for the moment

And to anyone else who might also be reading this or following along, JohnEd here is doing us a great service by imparting his knowledge on this subject, so big him up nicely ok He deserves it!

JohnEd

iTrader: (1)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crazy organization of answers to questions - but I've gotten it all digested

Ans: It was late and ...... Sorry to be muddled.

I'll subscribe to ALLDATA this evening.

Comment: Alldata has been good to me. The best is the Lex factory manual. Can't be beat. Still, Lex does not tell you how the shop gets those bolts out. The factory procedure expects the engine to be out of the car.

Next I need to take a look at a few connections on my SC. namely the plug locations coming into and out of the igniter pack and a few other obvious cable connections where electricity is being directed. Always start with the small stuff right?

Comment: I pulled apart and pushed together every connector in the ignition system at least ten times. I also sprayed them with electronic contact cleaner before, during and after that exercise.

From there it's finding the company named "Shucks" if I determine that I in fact do (and it's very likely) need a new starter. Yes, I whole heartily agree to buy new btw, and that's just what I'll do if I get one. Happen to have the website address for the company Shucks?

Ans: In Florida I think they go by Checker. Cut rate parts house.

The last few things I'd like to ask about are specific to the process of removing the starter it's self. Open the link below in an additional browser window and then come back here to read each of these questions as one by one they will relate to a part or image on that other page:

http://www.lextreme.com/starter.html

Comment: I wish I had known about this site when I did mine. The guy that did the write-up for the starter R&R ,David, seems to be an ACE. I think you should be talking to him. As well, he did the job in six hours and it took me three days and a lot of "hot tub time" between.


From what I can tell there are a few images that might have come from the resource you urged me to use above about this process on that page. Although not all of the images for every part of the process I'm sure they were provided, (and I'll most certainly be printing out everything) the most important are probably there.

Comment: Alldata is cost effective...$24 per year for on line access. Factory manual is with out question the very best for "only" @$400.

So, starting at the top with the tools section. Where is the best place to get the first set of snap on ratcheting wrenches? Sears I'd guess? Then next, what he has labeled as "2. Ratcheting with Flex head" I'm guessing actually means Ratcheting wrench with a flex head. What size would that wrench be then? 14mm?

Comment: This used to be called being "shined on". This planet would be so different if an individual that is so green could pull this off. Still, have to assume the best...... Snap-on is listed in the yellow pages under tools. I would guess that the flex head ratchet "SET" goes for $100. Don't forget screw drivers.

In your brief overview of some of the process you yourself went through to R&R your own starter you said "I knew I would NEVER get them back in" when talking about the two main starter attaching bolts that fit in back to front. What prevents them from being used / If they came out entirely during removal what blocks them from going back in?

Answer: There is not enough clear between the firewall and the rear of the engine and bolts. Reading Davids discussion: He said he "cut a 14mm wrench off with a hacksaw to". When grown up mechs start cutting up their Snap-On tools, well the job is difficult and they are desperate. ROOKIE BEWARE! It is a lot like sex, what you take out, well usually you can't put that right back in. Not so much because it is hard but sometimes maybe because it isn't. Those bolts never soften but you have to be there to understand, like sex again, that they are not going back in. The Lex shop told me it couldn't be done and I believe them. I say this even though you can present many individuals that have done so. Lex gets 8 hours flat rate for doing it with the engine "DROPPED 6 INCHES".

Still on that same question, going back to the other page with the photos there, looking at the 4th color photograph down with the "EGR" labeled in red - is that what blocks them from going back in? Or is it something else? I notice that there also appears to be a black plastic or maybe metal cowling of some sort overhanging the area and all these parts in those photos?, is that right or an optical illusion?

Answer: I think it is the crossover pipe. If you could get that off you could install the starter bolts without trouble. Lex said they had never been able to get that out either.

Another thing you talked about as being a royal PITA and overall making the process that much harder to complete was the "head connecting water duct" and the fact that it could not be removed.

Answer: see above

What does it look like (is it shown in the color photos on that other page were referencing)? In regard to that part you mentioned that the the mechs at the Lexus shop agreed it could not be removed while the engine was in the car. So on the page were looking at about this process where step 5 refers to removing a 'rear fluid bridge':

Answer: see above


"5. Remove the Rear radiator fluid bridge. 4 12 mm, two in the front and two in the rear."

Is this the same part you were talking about? Did they find a way to do it, And if so - where/at which step do those instructions explain to the reader how to remove said part (the Rear radiator fluid bridge)? Are they (this other website and instructions) talking about removing this part that cant be removed?

Answer:see above


Maybe the instructions are for use while the engine is removed completely from the vehicle?

Answer: It is a consensus that they think the engine is out of the car.

It's quite confusing on that point.

Answer: Real confusion has yet to set in. Frustration follows. Still, a lot of people have done this job before you or I got around to it and many of those get paid for their talent. Two local shops told me up front that they did not want the job. Be prepared to "find" the connector you forgot to connect or that is no longer making good contact.

I guess I could ask more questions about the process but not doubt some will be obvious when I'm in there while others might be answered by the ALLDATA info....So I'll leave it at these for the moment

And to anyone else who might also be reading this or following along, JohnEd here is doing us a great service by imparting his knowledge on this subject, so big him up nicely ok He deserves it!

Comment: I have been treated seriously "white" by many on this board and others. It is like a debt that is gladly paid to people that richly deserve their "payback". We take our time and give the best we have because it will probably be well received and we still believe in "pay it forward". As for me, I don't feel I "deserve" anything from anyone. I'm sure I don't have any knowledge to impart that amounts to much. I do have serious good intension,though. Guy once told me "you think you are a smart ***, don't you?" I told him that was certainly far from the truth and that I sometimes appeared so only because of the company I happened to be keeping at the time.

CLR, There is a member in your vicinity called Lexusboy. Know him? He might be able to give you some advice and assist on this project. From his posts, he seems to have a special mind for this type of effort and a depth of understanding that you might find useful.

My best of wishes to you on this repair project. Please keep us all posted on your day to day progress. Thank you for your flattery. If only I deserved it.

I hope everyone will give CLR as much help as we possibly can on his launch into the murky realm of DIY/Shade Tree Mechanic Lexus repair. Leaping into a starter replacement without even knowing what a ratchet is or that Snap-on is a brand, well that is real guts. You have to stick with a guy like this and follow up. Hope there are some other Florida members that can get aboard.

Quote of note... For those of you that are not literary giants...Moby **** is not a social disease.

John


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Last edited by CLRH2O : Yesterday at 07:12 PM.


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CLRH2O

Just a quick note about the tools. I've known the brand "Snap-On" for years (since around 1993 when I graduated from High School I think, or at least it seems it was then I first heard of them) but since his description of the parts set mentioned such a low price I was forced to think he did not mean the brand, and instead meant a "type" of removable/replaceable head ratchet tool that *might* have been like Snap-On tools. And the other flex head wrench, I od not own one of those so I had to ask as well. But my 188 piece Craftsman set along with all the one off tools I buy as I go (extender magnet stick, torque wrench, Pickle Forks, spring compressors, Hub tool, ect ect.....) have been enough over the past 7 or so year since I started getting into my own engine bays to get the jobs done.

The last thing I completed was the repair of the coolant return line (and the eventual complete education on Japanese vacuum systems as a result) which was located in the valley of the front wheel drive V-6 on the girls current MX-6. A thread about that can be found here:

http://www.mx6.com/forums/showthread...=142750&page=2

CLRH2O (just the same as here) is obviously my user name and all the pictures I took myself during that process.

Why mention all of this? Only to state that I do actually know a bit and I'm not totally green on working with my engines.

I suppose I just asked so many questions so blank faced above that it might have seemed like I really was green all around. I'm just not afraid to ask as many questions as possible before starting any physical work. Talk is easy, messing something up because I haven't done it before without learning alot it - that would be the hard.

With that all out of the way - you really are seriously helping out in a huge way I wholeheartedly appreciate it.

I'm actually leaving the house at the moment - but I'll be back in a few hours to probably ask a few more questions

JohnEd

iTrader: (1)

Clearwater,

Your correct, you came off differently to me. I felt a serious undercurrent of spoof and false confusion in your post to me. My apologies.

While your at it you can add other tools to your growing collection. The Lex shop handles those two 14 mm nuts differently than has been discussed. They drop the exhaust(duals), disconnect the drive shaft up front, support the trans, unbolt the trans mount and lower the rear of the trans as far as they can. Usually(?) that drops the rear 6 inches or so(?). One mech lays on top of the engine with a flashlight and a 12 inch screwdriver with a quarter inch blade. His job is to call out directions to the mech car standing under the lift. The mech under the car is feeding or fishing around with a FOUR FOOT LONG 3/8 drive extension. He has it going over the trans toward to front. The 14 mm socket on the end of the extension is a "SWIVEL" socket. The guy on top is supposed too use the screwdriver to get the socket on the nut. The lower dude then unscrews the nut. Mine broke free at about 100 lbs. so I guess the lower guy will be winding up that 3/8 drive about a half a turn. They didn't say. So lets see here....long screw driver, 4' extension, 14 mm swivel socket , a second mech and a lift or at least get it 2 feet off of the ground for wiggle room. They don't cut up any tools and they say it is easier and quicker than trying to get the thing unbolted/bolted from the top alone. Lex dealer says, now.

The guy David that you referred me to did it from on top with a cut off wrench. I don't doubt him and actually my hat is off to the guy. I said "those two bolts will NEVER go back in there" after I finally got them out. I meant it when I suggested you start a dialog with that guy. Cutting up tools isn't really a bad thing now. I ruined a 14mm box wrench by bending it up like a pretzel just to get the nuts off.

Do not unbolt that fluid cross over pipe and risk the gasket. Lex told me they have never been able to get that off. The harness that goes behind it cannot be separated so if you unbolt it it still won't move out of the way. If you could get that off you could do the bolts from the top without much hassle. Maybe David succeeded. ?

I got cap bolts that were three inches longer than the OE and installed them from the rear to the front and put the nuts in the front of the starter. Never went behind the engine again. My wrists and knuckles were raw from that one experience. I also reamed out the threads in the starter flanges, by the way. Not "nuts"... bolts hold the starter in and they screw into the threaded starter flange holes after passing through the trans/bell housing. You will know it when you see it.

Good luck with your adventure. I thought it was the most difficult small job I've ever done. I have a ton of Craftsman tools because of their warranty. I bought them long ago. I currently buy from "HARBOR FREIGHT" caus they are dirt cheap and will still be going when I'm long dead. On sale.... one tenth the cost. They have outlets in Florida.

Good luck

John

JohnEd

iTrader: (1)

CLR,

Your post on the MX6 forum is superb. Wish I was smart enuf to do the pic stuff. Bought a 2k computer with all that graphics stuff and am still looking at a virgin in that regard. Great post ober there....really.

That pipe is a "dealer only" item if I have ever seen one.

Oil does destroy that rubber. Watch that hole for future leaking. I would replace the gasket that seals the plug hole without question. If it like other hemi valve covers you will need to do the valvecover gasket but I DON"T KNOW FOR SURE.

If you overheated the engine and it is an alu block/head..... you need to have a radiator shop check your collant for exaust gas. They will tell you what to do if it checks positive.

A cracked head will leak at first and the engine will use coolant. The owner eventually just starts adding water. Certain death for alu but then the leak subsides. The rusted out parts are usually SECONDARY indications.

NEVER buy an auto with water in it and rub your finger up inside and under the radiator to see if there is any rust deposit or oil scum. Do that even if it has coolant in it. Run your finger around under the inside of the oil fill orface to check for a whitish scum that is WATER IN THE OIL. Boo bad. Insist on starting the car cold in the morning at least one time. I missed all of these once. Wish it had all been on the same car.

Good luck and again, great post on the other forum.

John