Cheap turbo setup...so i was thinking.
08-29-05, 12:19 AM
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Cheap turbo setup...so i was thinking.
So I was thinking. Has anyone tried taking two 14b's off of a dsm and putting them on the ge?
I mean, it'd be pretty simple, take the stock exhaust manifold, cut right after the three runners converge and run two pipes up to flanges for each one of the turbos. You'd already have internal wasgates for both turbos and becuase of their size, packaging shouldn't be too hard. Hell, you could even run some sort of dual exhaust if you felt like it. Then just make a y pipe, stuff that into an IC and back up to the TB and you're set.
Granted, I know that there are still bits and ends that you'd have to get, bov, pump, etc.
But with how easy they are to find and how cheap and considering how you dont need to get a wastegate, and you're saved from buying a turbo mani you'd still be ahead.
It's a small turbo, but two of them should be able to pump out enough air for at least 300rwhp before maxing out i'd imagine.
I mean, it'd be pretty simple, take the stock exhaust manifold, cut right after the three runners converge and run two pipes up to flanges for each one of the turbos. You'd already have internal wasgates for both turbos and becuase of their size, packaging shouldn't be too hard. Hell, you could even run some sort of dual exhaust if you felt like it. Then just make a y pipe, stuff that into an IC and back up to the TB and you're set.
Granted, I know that there are still bits and ends that you'd have to get, bov, pump, etc.
But with how easy they are to find and how cheap and considering how you dont need to get a wastegate, and you're saved from buying a turbo mani you'd still be ahead.
It's a small turbo, but two of them should be able to pump out enough air for at least 300rwhp before maxing out i'd imagine.
08-29-05, 01:21 AM
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Seems like too much trouble to custom make a manifold to suit a twin turbo set up for a 2JZGE, you might as well either fit in a 1JZGTE or 2JZGTE and save yourself the hassle.
If you were going NA-T I'd stick with one turbo that's a good compromise between low down kick and mid~high end power.
If you were going NA-T I'd stick with one turbo that's a good compromise between low down kick and mid~high end power.
08-29-05, 10:50 AM
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well, i was thinking more from the aspect of it'd be cheap. All you'd have to do is weld the stock exhaust manifold up after each Y to each turbo and mount a flange.
08-29-05, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dramon
well, i was thinking more from the aspect of it'd be cheap. All you'd have to do is weld the stock exhaust manifold up after each Y to each turbo and mount a flange.
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08-29-05, 02:04 PM
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I'm looking it from the perspective though of I know fab people so I pay for piping and a case of beer.
I'm not saying I was gonna do it, just pondering it.
The turbo setup i'm putting together I should be able to do for under a grand.
The guy I bought half my parts from put the exact same setup i'm doing for around 1200.
I'm getting my parts for cheaper and i'm going to save on labor as well as not having to buy as many parts too.
Basically i'm picking up parts from all the MKIV supra guys as they go standalone and into the 700+ hp mark and am reusing a lot of stuff from my FC.
Trust me, I know all about custom projects and nuts and bolts. And i'm not going to cheap out, done that before and you end up paying just as much in the end with more headache.
I'm not saying I was gonna do it, just pondering it.
The turbo setup i'm putting together I should be able to do for under a grand.
The guy I bought half my parts from put the exact same setup i'm doing for around 1200.
I'm getting my parts for cheaper and i'm going to save on labor as well as not having to buy as many parts too.
Basically i'm picking up parts from all the MKIV supra guys as they go standalone and into the 700+ hp mark and am reusing a lot of stuff from my FC.
Trust me, I know all about custom projects and nuts and bolts. And i'm not going to cheap out, done that before and you end up paying just as much in the end with more headache.
Last edited by Dramon; 08-29-05 at 02:18 PM.
08-29-05, 04:43 PM
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Yea.. single turbo and DaveH manifold is the more proven way to go IMHO. I know a guy that found a used TE44 buick grand national turbo in a junkyard ~$50. Rebuild cost was ~$400 from www.limitengineering.com, so you have a brand new turbo for $450 
. Maybe, you could piece together a solid turbo kit for $2,000, but you also have to add a proper clutch = $500. It doesn't stop there. Have a professional PROPERLY dyno tune the car = ~$300. So far, thats $2,800 not considering all the miscellaneous gaskets, nuts & bolts, and hardware, + gas expsense to get the parts. How are you planning to drill the oil pan? If you do it the safe way (completely remove the oil pan and clean it), I'd estimate it taking about 5 hours if you've never done it before. So, will you do it or pay someone to do it? time is money and removing the oil pan is not easy nor safe if you don't know what you're doing. just my $0.02.
. Maybe, you could piece together a solid turbo kit for $2,000, but you also have to add a proper clutch = $500. It doesn't stop there. Have a professional PROPERLY dyno tune the car = ~$300. So far, thats $2,800 not considering all the miscellaneous gaskets, nuts & bolts, and hardware, + gas expsense to get the parts. How are you planning to drill the oil pan? If you do it the safe way (completely remove the oil pan and clean it), I'd estimate it taking about 5 hours if you've never done it before. So, will you do it or pay someone to do it? time is money and removing the oil pan is not easy nor safe if you don't know what you're doing. just my $0.02.
Originally Posted by BrownDuckz
Exactly.. you're looking at it from a budget, good idea. The only problem.... when starting with something custom you have no idea how much its going to end up costing you before it's as good as something you can buy readily available - understand? You can pickup a manifold from DaveH for around $600.... they use GN style turbos. You can pickup a cheap GN turbo used off a grand national board for a few hundred dollars. Mix and match the remaining parts and you just might be able to put together a kit for around $2k. You can make about 300rwhp on stock fuel/stock compression.
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08-29-05, 11:49 PM
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I've got the local MKIV guys helping me and they've done this on another sc before. I think he finished at around 1200, bought a new turbo and managed 387 to the rear wheels for a total of 2 grand with a profec e0-1.
I'm going to be doing most of the work myself. I've got an auto, so thats like 200 in tranny coolers and misc crap.
Though honestly, i'm probably going to go over a grand because I was wanting to try water injection. The biggest thing though is the fact that I already have a lot of the stuff laying around.
I did the wiring for the standalone in my 7, i'm sure i can throw a turbo onto an sc300.
I'm going to be doing most of the work myself. I've got an auto, so thats like 200 in tranny coolers and misc crap.
Though honestly, i'm probably going to go over a grand because I was wanting to try water injection. The biggest thing though is the fact that I already have a lot of the stuff laying around.
I did the wiring for the standalone in my 7, i'm sure i can throw a turbo onto an sc300.
08-30-05, 02:12 AM
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what are you using for fuel control? are u OBD I or OBD II? Here's a list of things to consider:
1. Supra MKIV TT Fuel pump OR Walbro GSS341 = ~$75
2. Bigger injectors (recommended, but not needed since others have gotten by on stock)
--> if u run high boost, forget about the stock injectors being safe = ~$300 (for rx7 550cc)
3. Spark Plugs (Iridium recommended to give u smoother idle & they last longer) = ~$35
4. Rebuilt Turbo example from www.limitengineering.com = ~$450
5. Oil Lines + hardware from www.summitracing.com = ~$70
6. Clutch: horse power freaks package (ACT pressure plate + HPF disc) = ~$500
7. Blow Off Valve(generic): = ~$70
8. Intercooler: Supra MKIV TT SMIC w/ piping = ~$100
9. DaveH Turbo Manifold + WG tube + shorty DP + MidPipe = ~$850
10. Wastegate (used): ~$150
11. Dyno Tuning by a pro: ~$300 max
so far that's $2,902 and that doesn't include miscellaneous items like gaskets, sealant, silicone hose couplers + clamps, nuts/bolts, etc. Don't forget about fuel control too. Since you want cheap, I'm assuming you want only pigggy back like SAFC ($200 used) or something better like the MAP-ECU ($500+). Let's say +$100 for the miscellaneous parts & +$200 for a SAFC & lets assume you'll be running off of a WasteGate spring , so no need for any type of boost control.
Who will make that custom piping from the throttle body to your SMIC piping w/ a welded section for the Blow OFF Valve? Also, who will weld your down pipe together PROPERLY w/ WG recirculated (unless u prefer open WG)? That will also cost you unless your supra buddies will mandrel bend all that for free
not trying to "dis" your idea, I just want to see how you fulfill all those requirements for so cheap.
Also, you'll want something like a turbo blanket or ceramic coating on your turbo exhaust housing to keep engine bay temperatures under control..otherwise let me introduce you to "MELTED ABS SECTION"
A cheap piece sheet metal should guard that area nicely from heat. Ceramic coating the downpipe is a good idea too .
1. Supra MKIV TT Fuel pump OR Walbro GSS341 = ~$75
2. Bigger injectors (recommended, but not needed since others have gotten by on stock)
--> if u run high boost, forget about the stock injectors being safe = ~$300 (for rx7 550cc)
3. Spark Plugs (Iridium recommended to give u smoother idle & they last longer
) = ~$354. Rebuilt Turbo example from www.limitengineering.com = ~$450
5. Oil Lines + hardware from www.summitracing.com = ~$70
6. Clutch: horse power freaks package (ACT pressure plate + HPF disc) = ~$500
7. Blow Off Valve(generic): = ~$70
8. Intercooler: Supra MKIV TT SMIC w/ piping = ~$100
9. DaveH Turbo Manifold + WG tube + shorty DP + MidPipe = ~$850
10. Wastegate (used): ~$150
11. Dyno Tuning by a pro: ~$300 max
so far that's $2,902 and that doesn't include miscellaneous items like gaskets, sealant, silicone hose couplers + clamps, nuts/bolts, etc. Don't forget about fuel control too. Since you want cheap, I'm assuming you want only pigggy back like SAFC ($200 used) or something better like the MAP-ECU ($500+). Let's say +$100 for the miscellaneous parts & +$200 for a SAFC & lets assume you'll be running off of a WasteGate spring , so no need for any type of boost control.
Who will make that custom piping from the throttle body to your SMIC piping w/ a welded section for the Blow OFF Valve? Also, who will weld your down pipe together PROPERLY w/ WG recirculated (unless u prefer open WG)? That will also cost you unless your supra buddies will mandrel bend all that for free
not trying to "dis" your idea, I just want to see how you fulfill all those requirements for so cheap.
Also, you'll want something like a turbo blanket or ceramic coating on your turbo exhaust housing to keep engine bay temperatures under control..otherwise let me introduce you to "MELTED ABS SECTION"
A cheap piece sheet metal should guard that area nicely from heat. Ceramic coating the downpipe is a good idea too .
08-30-05, 07:32 AM
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I'm on odb1, wasn't planning on using any fuel control outside of stock ECU, I was planning on running a conservative 6-7 psi and hoping for around 250 or so to the rear wheels.
Already have the bov, already have my TT IC. Got my turbo already for 150 compressor side is smaller, like a t04b, but for the power goals I want it'll be fine previous owner put down i think 300 at 11 psi. Getting my fuel pump for another 50, was planning on keeping stock injectors, but when I upgrade I already have 4 s5 t2 injectors and can easily get two more. I am an auto so no clutch, but gotta buy tranny coolers, (not including tranny coolers into total price)
Though one thing I have a question on, can you run 250 on stock ecu or do you need additional fuel control? I don't remember if the other turbo SC had an e-manage when he was putting down 300 or if he got it when he put down 387.
As for piping all I gotta do is do all the cutting and sizing myself and then I know a bazillion people who will weld it up for me.
Ooh, good call on the abs, i didnt even think of that.
Already have the bov, already have my TT IC. Got my turbo already for 150 compressor side is smaller, like a t04b, but for the power goals I want it'll be fine previous owner put down i think 300 at 11 psi. Getting my fuel pump for another 50, was planning on keeping stock injectors, but when I upgrade I already have 4 s5 t2 injectors and can easily get two more. I am an auto so no clutch, but gotta buy tranny coolers, (not including tranny coolers into total price)
Though one thing I have a question on, can you run 250 on stock ecu or do you need additional fuel control? I don't remember if the other turbo SC had an e-manage when he was putting down 300 or if he got it when he put down 387.
As for piping all I gotta do is do all the cutting and sizing myself and then I know a bazillion people who will weld it up for me.
Ooh, good call on the abs, i didnt even think of that.
Last edited by Dramon; 08-30-05 at 07:58 AM.
08-30-05, 05:05 PM
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I'm 99.9% sure you will need SOME form of fuel control unless your wanting to get horrible performance or destroy your engine. IMHO, get a SAFCII @ the very least. I'd recommend getting your Exhaust manifold and down pipe ceramic coated. Keeping engine bay temperatures low is very important IMHO. It doesn't cost that much... Also, T-Bolt clamps for all your hose and IC piping is a good idea. Other than that, keep us posted on your project...I'd like to know what you achieve within your resulting budget. 
08-30-05, 05:28 PM
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It can be done @ around $2k including parts alone. You just have to lookout for good deals... and it may take awhile. Like I said - the cheapest mani/turbo setup would be a DaveH manifold matched to a cheap, used GN turbo. TE44 would be PERFECT. You can run stock compression, stock fuel including the pump - & make about 300rwhp. You say you're auto - even better, don't have to upgrade the clutch, BUT you must stay under 300rwhp if you expect the thing to last anytime. I'd throw a cooler on it for good measure and keep the fluids flushed regularly throughout its short lived life. 
Stock sidemount is an EXCELLENT choice for low-boost application. You won't be experiencing any heat soak at that low amount of power...... SAFC2 is plenty sufficient to tune the factory injectors, or even 440s. The best combo so far is to change to a LS400 MAF and correct the fuel with SAFC2. I'd finish off with a nice 3" full turbo back exhaust.........
Stock sidemount is an EXCELLENT choice for low-boost application. You won't be experiencing any heat soak at that low amount of power...... SAFC2 is plenty sufficient to tune the factory injectors, or even 440s. The best combo so far is to change to a LS400 MAF and correct the fuel with SAFC2. I'd finish off with a nice 3" full turbo back exhaust.........
08-30-05, 06:45 PM
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Oh yeah, i'm definitely using t-bolt clamps. With my last turbo car I kept popping couplers off like once a week. I was running a MAP so I could at least still drive but man, it was a freakin PITA.
Prolly gonna use heat wrap and build some sort of heat shield for the turbo.
I'll prolly start a thread here in a bit when I get a few more parts.
Prolly gonna use heat wrap and build some sort of heat shield for the turbo.
I'll prolly start a thread here in a bit when I get a few more parts.
10-25-05, 07:02 PM
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Eh, haha...the more i thought about it the more i started to add in more expensive parts....
I decided to go front mount, decided i wanted a wideband, didnt realize i'd need tranny coolers and a whole bunch of other **** like braided oil lines that all added up hardcore...
Basically I could get all the **** on for pretty cheap, but when it comes down to it becuase its my dd and my project car, i dont wanna have to do it more than once becuas ei'm a lazy college student and i really dont have time to **** with **** a bunch anymore.
I decided to go front mount, decided i wanted a wideband, didnt realize i'd need tranny coolers and a whole bunch of other **** like braided oil lines that all added up hardcore...
Basically I could get all the **** on for pretty cheap, but when it comes down to it becuase its my dd and my project car, i dont wanna have to do it more than once becuas ei'm a lazy college student and i really dont have time to **** with **** a bunch anymore.