Finally, winter weather has arrived in New England so it’s time for some 450h+ climate control observations.

First overall the heat pump seems to work well. If the ICE is not running you certainly hear the heat pump but it’s not louder than an ICE idling. I did note than when stopped with the brake on and the climate control in A/C there is a “more pronounced than it should be” vibration thru the pedal, steering wheel etc. This instantly stops when the A/C is flipped to off.

I previously had 2 RAV4 hybrids, the last a 2019 Limited and there are somethings I preferred with the RAV climate. Overall, the RAV auto climate was set up and worked just about perfectly.

The RAV had an AUTO button but when you were in AUTO the fan display and the display of where the air was going (dash, floor, floor and windshield etc) actually showed the actual fan speed and where the air was going even in AUTO. I found this helpful. In the 450 the display just says AUTO and you get no other feedback from the display. I prefer the RAV keep you fully informed way.

Yesterday it was raw and rainy. Despite being in AUTO and supposedly having a humidity sensor and appropriate algorithm to switch to floor and defog the windshield mode appropriately my windshield was way more fogged than I would have expected and would only clear when I switched the mode to floor and defrost. This something that should have happened automatically (did in the RAV). Not sure why that did not work appropriately.

Speaking of defrosting the windshield I note that the defroster outlet is only in the very center of the dashboard. It does not go very far to the left and right of center. So far it hasn’t been an issue but I wonder if on very cold days if this defroster outlet placement will make it difficult to defrost the bottom corners and far sides of the windshield.

I love technology but sometimes more is less and simpler is better. I was looking over the owner’s manual this morning and came across the “feature” where, amongst many other things, you can use voice command to cycle your wipers thru one cycle. That great but you can just reach to the wiper stalk and push it up once to accomplish the same task. Engineers sometimes get carried away with what we can accomplish and forget to think about if it’s actually helpful as more than a parlor trick.

 

That is so true. Especially about the new NX!!

 

I have noticed that the heat pump gets noisy and the vibration is noticed for sometime and the airflow symbol will still show no air or defogger. It looks like the heat pump is still initializing or preparing to start heating up. Once the heat pump is good, then you will see the air being directed. If you press on the front defogger, the ICE will turn on to help produce heat. I think the RAV4 hybrid is different with the 450h+. The 350h will most likely be similar to your RAV4 experience.

 

Took a tip to Starbucks this am and a few cold start observations which thankfully verified my original observations. Apparently my memory is not always as bad as I thought.

In my 450 and when in AUTO, it does not matter if the heat pump has just started or been fully up to speed and warmed up, the display never shows where the air is going. It only shows the stick figure icon with no details regarding air direction. Similarly on start up the fan icon goes to 50% and stays there no matter how fast the fan is going.

As for the ICE starting on defog, yes but only if you use the hard defog button and NOT if you choose foot/windshield on screen. I assume this is if you choose 100% defrost power then lets give you all the heat we can muster so ICE fires up.

The RAV hybrid system is different from the 450 system. My original comments were how the user interface was more informative the way RAV displayed the information and that when in AUTO the switch to foot/defog as managed by the humidity sensor worked much better. This speaks to software engineering and IMHO the RAV folks did a better/simpler, but better job.

This reminds me of recent trip to Boston with my son, this in my 2019 RAV. Halfway home from Boston I mentioned something about the radar cruise control. My son says "have you been using that on this trip". He says he'd been sitting as passenger making note of how my previous super smooth driving had gone down the tubes. He was relieved to find out it was the not perfectly smooth way the radar cruise handles braking and acceleration.

I can say, without reservation the 450 radar cruise is vastly improved relative to smoother braking and acceleration (especially now that you can pick acceleration aggressiveness), Now if I could only get a high paying job with Lexus/Toyota testing all these things and making recommendations. Maybe after I retire.

 

Yes, I was looking at three screen yesterday as well and it didn't change the direction image. But for some reason I did see it one time. I'm going to make some observations on it and see when it does happen.

 

This morning it was 11 degrees at my house. Was headed out so "started" my 450 with the phone app.

Problem #1. Much to my surprise when I got outside my Nx apparently had not "started". To be clear "starting" the 450 really means "starting" the climate control. The heat pump was obviously not running and apparently my fancy car wasn't smart enough to know it was below 14 degrees (the cutoff for heat pump action) and start the ICE. WTH?

Anyway drove down the road a bit and ICE never came on until such time I told my Nx it was too cold for heat pump heat. Apparently how you tell your Nx this is by putting the Nx in HV mode.

Problem #2. Once the ICE started it took forever, ok maybe not forever but a really long time before heat started. This way longer than a family Ux hybrid and my last 2 Rav hybrids. WAY LONGER.

Of course different than the UX and the RAVs you can't tell exactly when the heat starts as you get no fan speed feedback on the interface when in AUTO.

When the ICE finally came up to temperature the heat was fine. Overall though the cold weather performance was fair/poor at best. I knew there were concerns about low temperature heat pump performance, ok get that. A more robust lower than 14 degree plan should have been developed.

I'd give the UX and RAV hybrids a 10 for cold weather performance. They provided heat very quickly, heated well and gave one proper interface feedback, The 450, so far anyway would be happy to get a 5 and I'm likely being Christmas Eve festive with my rating.

I haven't decided but pretty sure a 350h would have been a better cold weather area choice. I think you could get the 350h with heater rear seats, windshield wiper deicer etc. and I assume the heater performance is way better. And while you were waiting briefly for the heat in your 350h you could be enjoying your Mark Levinson.

I love the 450... drivetrain etc but there are some things that just leave you scratching your head, especially at the price point.

I will continue my cold weather observations. in the meantime, anyone in Florida care to swap a 350h in white with red interior for a similar 450?

 

I didn't remote start my 450 last night, but I drove it out of my garage and it was around -5C and when driving to my local hardware store, the engine did turn on even in EV mode. If you use the front defogger, the ICE comes on immediately to heat up the windshield. I'm having a little different experience than you are. I never had to change it to HV for the ICE to come on.

 

Huh. And -5C is 23F so obviously above the 14F cutoff. And ICE came on by itself and BEFORE you may have used front defogger hard button? This is puzzling.

No matter how it starts do you find the ICE heats quickly or have you not had any cold to determine that. As I mentioned I found it to be really slow. Further investigation warranted.

 

So what happens is - when the heater is switched on when the outside temperature is below about 14°F (-10°C), the ICE will turn on. I have NOT used the front defogger hard button on my drive yesterday. It automatically turned on without me doing anything. It did take a few mins for it to turn on and be fully functional. I noticed it being blue in the energy consumption screen and then it will turn orange when it actually is being used. It's not fast, especially if you are not using it to drive the vehicle it will take it's time to warm up. It's also going thru cold winds while you are driving down the road. In HV mode you are forcing it to power the wheels making it needing to warm up faster like a normal ICE vehicle or a hybrid vehicle. One way to ensure the ICE turns on when you remote start is to turn on the front defrost in the climate screen. That way the car will start the ICE to warm up the vehicle. I haven't personally tried that, but I will try it today as it's quite cold today with the wind.

 

My 450H started the ICE right away when it was 9F (-13C) last night. It took a few minutes for a good heat to come through, basically the same experience as expected from a regular ICE vehicle.

 

Just went on a drive to my son's. 450 had about 25 miles of EV range. Outside temperatures as noted from the instrument cluster 13-15F. Nx started in EV as you'd expect (save for the cold temperatures). Drove for ~15 miles and the ICE NEVER started. Interior temperature was warm but not more than that.

Left the NX running in EV while at his house for about 30 minutes. The heat pump sounded like a jet engine. Used a remote temperature device he had and temperature out of the center vents after 30 minutes was 83F. I had the mode set to floor and vents otherwise in AUTO. It was warm in the Nx but again likely not 70F which it was set for.

Put the Nx in HV and immediately the ICE started. Once the ICE adequately warmed the temperature out of the center vents went to ~90F (it took a while to budge from 83F) then slowly back down to the 70s appropriately bringing the interior up to setpoint of 70F and then keeping in there.

I have no idea why my ICE won't come on appropriately without me switching to HV or hitting hard defrost button. I wonder what could I have set wrong or ??

 

EDIT: It took me only five months to figure this out, but the Auto button solely controls the vent position - i.e., whether the ventilation flow will come from the bottom, the top, a mixture of both, etc. Left active, the Auto function will determine the mix. To override, the driver can control the flow by pressing the humanoid icon located above the driver's temperature control dial.

Original comment: NX350 Turbo: Damned if I can figure out what the system is doing. I don’t use Climate Concierge, but the interaction between the Auto button, the temperature adjustment dials, the fan and the AC button is utterly incomprehensible. Among other things, why do we need an AC button if we have Auto and temp buttons? And the Auto and Off buttons rarely hold their settings between start-ups.

Despite all of that whining, however, the system generally works to cool and heat as desired. I just can’t figure out how it’s doing that.

 

As a new NX350h owner, I am using this sub to get tips and tricks. Maybe I am being dumb, but what is the acronym for ICE? Thanks everyone!

 

Internal Combustion Engine