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For those that are getting a 450h+ PHEV I wanted to encourage folks to get a level 2 charger.
A faster charger at home was a game changer for us. The EV range is great but it’s pretty easy to eat into it running errands, kids to school, sports etc. Being able to plug it in and charge all the way back up in an hour or 2 is great.
It also means you don’t HAVE to remember to charge it every night if you don’t want to. I know I can top it up in the morning if needed.
If you get an electrician to install a NEMA14-50 appliance socket near where you park the car the cost shouldn’t be more than $500 and there are multiple good choices for at home L2 chargers (technically called EVSEs). We’ll worth it given the cost of the 450h+
I think this all depends on your needs. I wouldn't say it's a must have. During this time, I am only driving like 2-3 km a day. Just to go to the gym and back home as I work from home. When I do go back to the office then I agree that a faster charger would be much better and more convenient. At this time the level 1 charging does the job for me. I could also drive down to the local Toyota dealership which offers free 240V level 2 charging and I can just plug it in there if I really need a faster charge.
My wife and I went out to do grocery shopping and I dropped off my car to plug at the dealership and when I got back, it was close almost fully charged. Enough for my weekday gym trips.
I would most likely install level 2 when I do decided to swap my CT200h for an EV. I need to upgrade my house panel to 200Amp and a bunch of stuff to get a level 2 charger which does cost a few thousand dollars. That is why I have been holding off on any level 2 chargers at home.
I am pondering this question for the past couple of weeks. I think with the L2 charger I will rarely get to use the ICE engine and this may not be a good thing. I am leaning toward not getting the L2 charger unless gas goes to $5 a liter.
Good points. We lived without one for a month but after getting it I was surprised at how much better it made the general experience.
Obviously everybody's mileage will vary. Our goal is to use the EV as much as possible and the L2 makes everything much easier and quicker. Since our next car will almost certainly be a full EV it made sense. It's also almost inevitable that we use the ICE once in a while on a longer trip. Occasionally I just turn it on to generate in cabin heat as quickly as possible!
NX450h+ CHARGING FAQ There are two types of AC plug-in hybrid charging, Level 1 and Level 2:
Level 1 is typically rated at 120 volts like a household wall outlet. It's best for overnight charging since it can take an extended period of time.
Level 2 sometimes referred to as fast charging is usually rated at 240 volts. This means the vehicle's hybrid battery can charge at a much faster rate. While public chargers are categorized as fast chargers in most cases, Level 2 charging at home requires the professional installation of a fast charger.
All NX450h+ are supplied with a single cable, a 120 V 15 A cable described as Level 1. This cable is supplied for emergency use only, as getting a full charge on a completely depleted battery could take up to 12 HR on 120 V 15 A service.
All NX450h+ built for the Southern Area are being built with the upgraded 6.6 kW on-board charger, which supports Level 1 and Level 2 charging from an AC connection as well as high-current charging using dedicated connections such as common public commercial chargers.
Initially, guests will need to source a Level 2 cable from a 3rd party supplier to connect to a 240 V 40 or 50 A connector meeting (NEMA 14‑50 standard) in their garage or covered parking area.
Level 2 charging can fully charge a depleted battery in 2½ hours. These cables can be found by searching commercial websites for “240 V 32 A Level 2 EV charging cable NEMA 14‑50.
” If the guest does not have a NEMA 14-50 connector (used in modern homes for ovens, air conditioners, driers, garage equipment, etc.) accessible at home, they would need to have a local electrical contractor install one.
Can't speak for prices in the USA, but in Canada, Ontario specifically...
We changed our old panel from 100 amps to 200 amps 8 months ago. Needed additional wattage for other reasons.
If you have 100 amps, you will need to upgrade to 200 amps, you might get away with it if you use gas for your dryer and gas for your oven/stove.
An upgrade is not cheap. Hydro charges, Other Hydro charges, finding an electrician that can do it within 4-6 months, cost to dig a huge hole to get to the old wires. Ours was down 6 feet, lucky the electrician did it for a charge. Hydro sand one cubic yard. Can they even get a new panel, some electrical stuff is in short supply. We were quoted $5,800 to 8,000. Lucky the guy at $5,800 called us back and said he could do it in a couple of weeks because he could not get underground cable for a large commercial job. Excellent guys, great work on one hot steamy day in July. He also ran the cable to the garage in case we ever did buy an electric vehicle. Pretty fat cable.
If you have the current required, Bob's you uncle and you're good to go...
Can't speak for prices in the USA, but in Canada, Ontario specifically...
We changed our old panel from 100 amps to 200 amps 8 months ago. Needed additional wattage for other reasons.
If you have 100 amps, you will need to upgrade to 200 amps, you might get away with it if you use gas for your dryer and gas for your oven/stove.
An upgrade is not cheap. Hydro charges, Other Hydro charges, finding an electrician that can do it within 4-6 months, cost to dig a huge hole to get to the old wires. Ours was down 6 feet, lucky the electrician did it for a charge. Hydro sand one cubic yard. Can they even get a new panel, some electrical stuff is in short supply. We were quoted $5,800 to 8,000. Lucky the guy at $5,800 called us back and said he could do it in a couple of weeks because he could not get underground cable for a large commercial job. Excellent guys, great work on one hot steamy day in July. He also ran the cable to the garage in case we ever did buy an electric vehicle. Pretty fat cable.
If you have the current required, Bob's you uncle and you're good to go...
That's why I haven't gone down that route. Hopefully government will subsidize EV installation one day. My panel is 125Amp and 80% is max usage is 100Amps. Stove is 40Amp and dryer is 30Amps. When you use everything together it becomes an issue. There are products like Neocharge that can split, share and manage the dryer plug. So either you charge your car or use your dryer.
Good points. We lived without one for a month but after getting it I was surprised at how much better it made the general experience.
Obviously everybody's mileage will vary. Our goal is to use the EV as much as possible and the L2 makes everything much easier and quicker. Since our next car will almost certainly be a full EV it made sense. It's also almost inevitable that we use the ICE once in a while on a longer trip. Occasionally I just turn it on to generate in cabin heat as quickly as possible!
I have also thought about the next car, a full EV one. I was told they require pretty high current for fast charging. So, I don't know whether a 40-50 A outlet will be sufficient.
Can't speak for prices in the USA, but in Canada, Ontario specifically...
We changed our old panel from 100 amps to 200 amps 8 months ago. Needed additional wattage for other reasons.
If you have 100 amps, you will need to upgrade to 200 amps, you might get away with it if you use gas for your dryer and gas for your oven/stove.
An upgrade is not cheap. Hydro charges, Other Hydro charges, finding an electrician that can do it within 4-6 months, cost to dig a huge hole to get to the old wires. Ours was down 6 feet, lucky the electrician did it for a charge. Hydro sand one cubic yard. Can they even get a new panel, some electrical stuff is in short supply. We were quoted $5,800 to 8,000. Lucky the guy at $5,800 called us back and said he could do it in a couple of weeks because he could not get underground cable for a large commercial job. Excellent guys, great work on one hot steamy day in July. He also ran the cable to the garage in case we ever did buy an electric vehicle. Pretty fat cable.
If you have the current required, Bob's you uncle and you're good to go...
That’s why I don’t like EV vehicles. It’s very expensive to do the conversion and the electricity costs will increase too. Also, the electrical grid cannot handle EV charging. Most people don’t believe this, but the electrical grid cannot handle hundreds of thousands or millions of EV’s being plugged in at the same time. This whole going green plan will backfire into the faces of the people who started it. This is not the right time to go full EV. I know that you green supporters who are in here don’t want to hear this, but that’s what’s going to happen. This whole going full EV thing has a lot of problems. You’re better off going hybrid/plug-in only (PHEV) if you really want your vehicle to have some EV capability. If you don’t want to go the PHEV or the hybrid route, I wish you all the best of luck with your EV vehicles because you’re going to need it.
That’s why I don’t like EV vehicles. It’s very expensive to do the conversion and the electricity costs will increase too. Also, the electrical grid cannot handle EV charging. Most people don’t believe this, but the electrical grid cannot handle hundreds of thousands or millions of EV’s being plugged in at the same time. This whole going green plan will backfire into the faces of the people who started it. This is not the right time to go full EV. I know that you green supporters who are in here don’t want to hear this, but that’s what’s going to happen. This whole going full EV thing has a lot of problems. You’re better off going hybrid/plug-in only (PHEV) if you really want your vehicle to have some EV capability. If you don’t want to go the PHEV or the hybrid route, I wish you all the best of luck with your EV vehicles because you’re going to need it.
That's why our next car will be a PHEV. I've been using hybrids for the past nine years and I think they're a great compromise, I just wish performance were a bit better. I think PHEVs hit that sweet spot, at least for my driving style.
That’s why I don’t like EV vehicles. It’s very expensive to do the conversion and the electricity costs will increase too. Also, the electrical grid cannot handle EV charging. Most people don’t believe this, but the electrical grid cannot handle hundreds of thousands or millions of EV’s being plugged in at the same time. This whole going green plan will backfire into the faces of the people who started it. This is not the right time to go full EV. I know that you green supporters who are in here don’t want to hear this, but that’s what’s going to happen. This whole going full EV thing has a lot of problems. You’re better off going hybrid/plug-in only (PHEV) if you really want your vehicle to have some EV capability. If you don’t want to go the PHEV or the hybrid route, I wish you all the best of luck with your EV vehicles because you’re going to need it.
well new homes all have 200amp (at least in ontario), it's older homes that need to conversion. New condos, commercial and institutional builds have min EV charging requirements as well
and the electric grid can't handle everyone using EV's now..but that's not what's happening, it's going to occur over couple decades at least, not like you buy an EV and won't be able to charge it, moreover EV charging is done mostly overnight at home when electricity demand is lowest, so the impact on grid is even less. In ontario, they even introduced lower tier for electricity overnight because they want more people to use the grid at night when there's a lot of excess supply.
and sure...electricity costs can/will increase..but so does gas ..and it'll increase faster than electricity more than likely as renewables become more cost effective.
well new homes all have 200amp (at least in ontario), it's older homes that need to conversion. New condos, commercial and institutional builds have min EV charging requirements as well
and the electric grid can't handle everyone using EV's now..but that's not what's happening, it's going to occur over couple decades at least, not like you buy an EV and won't be able to charge it, moreover EV charging is done mostly overnight at home when electricity demand is lowest, so the impact on grid is even less. In ontario, they even introduced lower tier for electricity overnight because they want more people to use the grid at night when there's a lot of excess supply.
and sure...electricity costs can/will increase..but so does gas ..and it'll increase faster than electricity more than likely as renewables become more cost effective.
Moving to a new home with 200amp might not work and the cost to change 125Amp to 200Amp will still need to be done. Even with that, the super chargers of 150kW to whatever kW is typically used during the day as people need the mileage an hour or 2 after plugging in. But because the EV batteries are large, it will still take overnight to fully charge the 70-100kWh batteries in the EV in the evening. That may work as not everybody will be using their stove/dryer during their sleep... That is only if the EV chargers remain at 30-40Amps. If it needs more, then 200Amp panel may not work too... there is just too many unknowns and technology advancing faster than we can upgrade our home panels.
Personally. I'm waiting to buy an EV until there is the killer application, a wireless drive in charger, installed in my garage, that I just park over the top of, and it charges the vehicle without me doing anything!
That’s why I don’t like EV vehicles. It’s very expensive to do the conversion and the electricity costs will increase too. Also, the electrical grid cannot handle EV charging. Most people don’t believe this, but the electrical grid cannot handle hundreds of thousands or millions of EV’s being plugged in at the same time. This whole going green plan will backfire into the faces of the people who started it. This is not the right time to go full EV. I know that you green supporters who are in here don’t want to hear this, but that’s what’s going to happen. This whole going full EV thing has a lot of problems. You’re better off going hybrid/plug-in only (PHEV) if you really want your vehicle to have some EV capability. If you don’t want to go the PHEV or the hybrid route, I wish you all the best of luck with your EV vehicles because you’re going to need it.
The following pictures are from a SEMA CONNECT - Level 2 240v flexible amp up to 50A
My apartment has free chargers, but my office and houses have electrical prices @ about 3.5 cents + transmission or near 8 cents all in -> 60kwh charge costs $5 in electricity
I drive pretty hard, pedal to the floor everywhere, I get about 160miles per tank/charge no matter what car I drive
At $3.50 a gallon, on a 15 gallon tank, I'm spending $50 a tank
My energy contract is up for renewal, my strike price with my broker is 4.5 cents + transmission, I assume my costs will go up
I also just leave the car plugged in even after it hits 100%, that is why the screen shots show such long times, I'm too lazy to unplug it
But on the other hand, so is premium gas, it sure as hell ain't $3.50/gallon anymore
These are HTX,USA prices
Personally I love V12s... but most of my non car friends are already all EV and I see why...
I am looking into getting level3 chargers installed where I can, just waiting for pricing on the chargers themselves to drop
Moving to a new home with 200amp might not work and the cost to change 125Amp to 200Amp will still need to be done. Even with that, the super chargers of 150kW to whatever kW is typically used during the day as people need the mileage an hour or 2 after plugging in. But because the EV batteries are large, it will still take overnight to fully charge the 70-100kWh batteries in the EV in the evening. That may work as not everybody will be using their stove/dryer during their sleep... That is only if the EV chargers remain at 30-40Amps. If it needs more, then 200Amp panel may not work too... there is just too many unknowns and technology advancing faster than we can upgrade our home panels.
my point was the conversion will become less and less of a problem since the proportion of housing stock with 200amp service in ground related dwelling units will increase due to new homes all having it. Also condos, ICI sector all have min 10% requirement for EV charging of total parking
Level 2 Charger a must have.
