nthach

I was at Wal-Mart a few days ago in the oil aisle getting stuff for someone's car i was working on, and i noticed a new bottle of Valvoline MaxLife ATF on the shelf. I pick it up, and to my surprise, it says Toyota/Lexus Type T/T-II/T-IV on the back, as well as being certified as a Dexron III fluid. I'm skeptical, how come they can make a DIII product for T-IV as well? Anyone else puzzled as I am?

TLW

i was talking to my old boss the other day and i was going to have him do a trans flush for me

but after Henry posted up about using only Toyota fluid i was a little worried until he told me about this stuff

he said its compatible with almost everything out there

from their website

MaxLife ATF contains a blend of superior base oils and a unique additive package to help extend the life of transmissions with over 75,000 miles. It is formulated to maximize transmission performance, reduce transmission wear, and improve and maintain smooth shifting longer than conventional fluids. MaxLife ATF is compatible with new and rebuilt transmissions and will not void new car warranties.

* Contains high-performance seal conditioners to maintain and preserve the elasticity of seals to help prevent leaks
* Contains long-life friction modifiers and premium base oils to help improve smooth shifting, eliminate slippage and shudder, prevent clutch wear and improve drivability longer than conventional fluids
* Contains advanced anti-wear agents to provide wear protection for smoother shifts under all driving conditions
* Contains enhanced cleaning additives to help reduce varnish formation and keep the transmission running properly longer
* Engineered with a unique blend of viscosity modifiers and base oils to provide better oil flow at low temperatures and greater film protection at higher temperatures
* Recommended for use in GM, Ford, Mazda, Toyota, Chrysler and Most Import Vehicles

saber

When push comes to shove, Valvoline will admit it's Maxlife ATF has NOT been tested and approved by Toyota / Lexus. It's only been tested and approved by Valvoline and Valvoline could have lower standards of performance and wear prevention compared to Toyota.

mburnickas

If the product meets what your manual states, you are fine.

I use Amsoil ATF in my ES and for example it passes Dexron3, Mercon + mercon 5, atf to atf+4, Toyota Type T & T-IV etc etc.

Works mint for me. Also long as the oil manfacture states it meets the requirements YOU need you are fine. Toyota T-4 is NORMAL dino ATF passed oil.

saber

Valvoline MaxLife is not chemically identical to Toyota Type T-IV fluid, therefore it is an imitation quality product. In just what specific ways Valvoline MaxLife may change the reliability and durability potential of an ES300 transmission, nobody knows and therefore using Valvoline MaxLife is inherently risky compared to using genuine Toyota Type T-IV.

mburnickas

Saber- I am not going to go through these views every time someone selects a non Toyota product. You take what Toyota says as “god” and let others go by there own product.

So if the product claims it meets the proper specification you need/want, then it does. I do not think every manufacture out there, other then Toyota, is lying here.

Even Toyota does not state what you do. It is not risky but that is how YOU view it.

If you need mercon fluid then look for ANY fluid that meets that requirment. If you need Toyota- T4 then look for all the fluids that meet T4 requirments. etc etc

saber

mburnickas says "It is not risky but that is how YOU view it." My response is to look
at what has happened in the past when oil companies introduced new oils that
were API approved but not specifically tested and approved by the car makers.

In the 1970's for example, Mobil 1 was API certified to meet car makers standards, but
thousands of people in those days who tried Mobil 1 found out the hard way there were
unforseen consequences of using Mobil 1 like oil seal shrinkage that caused serious
front and rear crankshaft seal oil leaks and clogging of oil passages in high mileage engines.

Below Valvoline admits: "these[listed] vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated
nor approved MaxLife ATF "

THOMAS R. SMITH
Technical Director, Valvoline Brand
Phone: (859) 357-2766
Fax: (859) 357-7610
e-mail: trsmith@ashland.com

March 11, 2003

To Whom It May Concern:

Valvoline supports the use of MaxLife A TF in a broad range of transmissions
beyond those requiring Dexron III and Mercon fluids including those where
the following fluids are recommended:

o GM Dexron II
o FordMerconV
o Chrysler ATF+3 or ATF+4 fluids
o Toyota (and Lexus) Type T, T-Ill or T-IV fluids
o Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II or SP-Ill fluids
o Honda ATF-Zl fluid (except in CVTs)
o BMW LT7114l or LA2634 fluids
o Nissan J-Matic Fluid

Valvoline has conducted in-house testing to support MaxLife A TF
performance in these transmissions. However, it is important to
note that these vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated
nor approved MaxLife ATF .

Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including MaxLife ATF.
Use of MaxLife ATF in transmissions where recommended by
Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle's warranty .In the unlikely
event that any transmission was to be damaged as a result of
the use of MaxLife ATF, please contact Valvoline at
1-800-Team- VAL.

Thomas R. Smith
Technical Director
Valvoline Brand
THE VALVOLINE COMPANY. A DIVISION OF ASHLAND INC.
.P.O. BOX 14000 EXINGTON, KENTUCKY 40512. (859) 357-7000

HarrierAWD

Use the OEM fluid unless it's proven inadequate. Toyota has proven its product line with legendary reliability for decades. So why switch? It's not like anybody is saving big bucks by using snake oil. And don't believe everything in advertising.

Oil companies used to tout their premium gasoline with unproven outrageous claims. Fortunately FTC put a stop to it, so you don't see those premium gas ads anymore. Apparently oil companies have found new ways to make more money with "specialty" oil and fluid: oil for high mileage engines, oil for SUVs, oil for extended life, oil for heavy duty engines, etc. Dinosaurs would be turning in their graves.

Those who really know cars and those who don't know jack tend to have cars that run well and economically. It's those who THINK they know cars waste their money on useless products that might even damage their beloved vehicles. I hope my fellow CL members will not waste money on snake oil and other products in the future. Remember I am not the one trying to make money off you.

VVT-i

Well, when i saw this thread a few days ago I know what's gonna happened. I will let this thread stay open for a while and will see.

mburnickas

Saber saber ….First off 30 year old info on oil? Not going to even go there No value added.

Next is the email from over 2 years ago.

You are in the league of a select few that seem to push your beliefs on others (which is fine by me) but without anything more then a company’s info. I seem to be the only one on this club lexus forum and the other the post real world oil analysis.

Example here is Dex3

Phosphorous - 0.3% AW additive
Zinc - 0.23% AW additive, anti-oxidant as ZDDP
Nitrogen - 0.9% AW additive
Boron - 0.16% Detergent and AW additive
Calcium - 0.05% Detergent/Dispersant, tbn base chemistry
Magnesium - 0.05% Detergent and base chemistry
Sulfur - 0.55% FM and AW
Barium - various% used as particlate control


Do you even know what is in ATF fluid. Does it have ZDDP in it? What other things are in it? Do you know what is different in Toyota fluid?

The type T-IV has improved high/low temp properties and may be more durable, but the frictional properties are extremely close to Dexron. Example. Amsoil was able to meet the T-IV specifications with their synthetic, Dexron III ATF, for example. I suspect Mobil and Redline could do the same, if they thought the replacement market warranted the effort and expense. Amsoil has fully tested their ATF in Toyota transmissions and fully warrantees it for the Type T and Type T-IV applications.

Transmission sumps don't see combustion by-products, including dilution by fuel, , no silicons (unless the dipstick become unseated), so the tranny case is essentially sealed - That is why they are cleaner than engine oil pans. Most ATF's are 0w-20 or 5w-20 grades, so by thinning out the old oil it may drain more completely. The main requirements of an ATF are thermal stability and friction modification (lubrication), with some anti-wear additive for the Sun, lock-up, and Planetary Gears, and of course, the needle/pin bearings. Add about 0.01% of anti-foamants (siloxanes) and some red dye for leak identification, and you have an ATF.

The process for making a equivalent fluid is: The fluid developer must come up with a fluid that meets the specification for oxidation resistance, friction modification retention, etc. That is it.

Ususally, an additive company like Afton (formerly Ethyl) or Lubrizol, or Infineum, or XYZ, comes up with an add pack for that specification. They then suggest a base oil mix for that formulation.

The formulation gets tested, and if it passes, everything is hunky dory. Usually, it doesn't pass the first time and has to be tweaked for various reasons, such as for example, friction modification retention.

After testing, the additive supplier is confident the additive package can meet the specification requirements for various base fluids.

As the specification heat is turned up, higher Group fluids must be used, such as Group III minimum, in order to pass certain tests.

A side note: Toyota and Lubrizol did a lot of work to improve on Dex III to develop T-IV. From my understanding and read they are very very similar to Dex III with added Ca. Some aftermarket ATF have this requirement since the T-4 has been out since 1998. The Toyota t4 fluid is a highly friction modified FOR shift smoothness and freedom from judder ETC ETC.

So you and HarrierAWD are SO against long/extended drain I guess you and him cringe with Toyota going to synthetic engine oil next year and with their new ATF fluid (WS) that NEVER needs to be changed if you do not tow. If you tow, it is 60K miles.

I am not going to even comment on the snake oil deal about extended oiil life since it is 100% wrong. Do some oil testing then come back.