JimsGX

I had the transmission fluid changed on my 05 LS430 last week by the local Lexus dealer. I sent a used fluid sample off to Blackstone Laboratories this past weekend for analysis. The car / fluid had 100,944 miles on it when the fluid was changed. I'll be posting the Blackstone report here, probably later this week, when they email me the results. I'm also paying for a TBN test on the oil to see what level of additives remain.

Here's an explanation of what the TBN test measures... http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

I know this has been a heated subject (whether or not a tranny fluid change is needed at all, or if you're going to do it, at what mileage, etc...), hopefully we can all agree to disagree and keep things civil!

Jim

Playdrv4me

Well, sending the fluid to the laboratory will certainly help to provide some clarity. Question... What is their base-line? In other words, do we/they know what the numbers should be for a brand new sample of Toyota WS?

Thanks for your effort!

JimsGX

I don't have an answer to that question at this point. I didn't send them a virgin sample along with the used. When I receive the test result via email, I'll respond to see if they have a virgin baseline they're willing to share.

alex870

Jim - I'm really looking forward to reading your report details. Also it would be great if you could indicate the type of use your car has seen (towing, mountains, mostly highway vs. city driving) and also if the car spent it's life in the cooler climate of MA vs. places like AZ.

If I had to guess, I'd imagine your ATF had about 65% of it's life used up, and didn't degrade to a serious level. It'll be great to get some empirical data to calibrate expactations. I'm only 4k off 100,000 miles myself but I'm in a hotter climate.

Alex

JimsGX

Alex,

My 05 saw a significant amount of highway time up until 91k miles. Since then (up to its current 101k), its seen about 25% highway (70~80mph), and 75% rural roads @ speeds in the 35~55mph range... Never used for towing or in mountainous areas. Its spent its whole life in MA after making its ocean voyage from the Tahara, JP plant.

Jim

Jabberwock

I am very interested in the results you get back on the transmission fluid analysis. It will be nicce to have an objective factual analysis.

Hope this thread can its stay civil and drama free this time. Its been my observation that tranny's can make some guys get pretty excited.

Playdrv4me

Post of the month.

JimsGX

I just found this virgin baseline sample of Toyota WS fluid online. Hopefully this will help in the analysis. I had a hard time getting this cut & paste to format correctly in the post. The numbers to the left are the virgin baseline, the numbers to the right / on the end of each line are from an 04 Toyota Prius sample w/61k miles. So iron for example, is 1 for the virgin sample and 206 for the Prius w/61k miles. The Prius switched to the WS fluid standard in MY 04 when Toyota made some design changes to their CVVT transmission. The analysis doesn't include a TBN however. The viscosity rating at the bottom is interesting. The fluid is thinning out over 61k miles. When I looked at the sample that came out of my car, I was surprised at how thin the fluid was.

TYPE WS Virgin / 61,000
WEAR METALS
Iron Fe ppm 1 206
Chromium Cr ppm 0 2
Molybdenum Mo ppm 1 0
Aluminum Al ppm 1 56
Copper Cu ppm 0 21
Lead Pb ppm 0 1
Tin Sn ppm 0 3
Silver Ag ppm 0 0
Nickel Ni ppm 0 7
Vanadium V ppm 0 0
Titanium Ti ppm 0 0
Manganese Mn ppm 0 5
Cadmium Cd ppm 0 0

CONTAMINANT METALS
Silicon Si ppm 2 153
Sodium Na ppm 0 0
Boron B ppm 59 27

ADDITIVE METALS
Magnesium Mg ppm 0 0
Calcium Ca ppm 109 115
Barium Ba ppm 0 20
Phosphorus P ppm 245 227
Zinc Zn ppm 0 8

NON-METALLIC CONT.
Water % vol Nil Nil
Solids % vol <0.1 <0.1

LUBE DATA
Viscosity @ 40'C cSt 24.6 21.3
Viscosity @100'C cSt 5.5 4.7
Viscosity Index 171 144

Jabberwock

Excellent info - very interesting. Fe went up 1 to 206, Al went up 1 to 56, Si went up 2 to 153. Does anyone know how good or bad these changes are relative to mileage? Do these increases indicate heavy wear? I don't have a frame of reference or experience to know if these are good or bad numbers for 61k miles.

votru

iTrader: (7)

Wow, pretty cool...looking forward to results as well .

V8_Fan

Slightly off topic, but do you have any rust issues? Also, do you use the OEM mud flaps to reduce gravel/sand pelting the lower door rocker panels?

Silicon (sand) is the major wear indicator in engine fluids (from dust in the air). The more silica, the more wear you will experience. Aluminum and iron are from transmission component wear (gears, etc.). I'm not sure, but I'd harbor a guess that Toyota is using an aluminum planetary gear in the transmission? Usually only the heavy-duty trannies like in the Landcruiser/LX470 get the steel planetary gears; even the GX/4Runner went to aluminum gears back in 2003.

abs

Excellent! Thanks Jim. I'm pretty sure I saw a VOA for the WS Fluid which included the TBN. Let me see if I can dig that one up. I think it might have been from a Toyota vehicle . . .

Lust4Lexus

And the question nobody has asked... do you feel an improvement in performance?

Playdrv4me

I have about the same mileage as Jim (98k) and I had mine changed at Mungenast Lexus here in STL a couple of weeks ago. The same quirky behaviors that were there before they changed it were there afterward. The biggest problem I have is that as I approach a stopping point, if I don't give the car sufficient time and hit the accelerator it jerks into gear at slow speeds. Also, when I'm coasting down a hill toward a stop and hit the brakes the RPM will occasionally rise a few hundred before it fully shifts to stop. This is the second 6 speed transmission I've owned with such annoyances, the first being in my 2003 745i (that was a ZF, this is an Aisin-Warner).

My only option is to have the low speed shift issue TSB done to this car at 170 bucks labor time, I have a feeling that isn't going to do a damn thing though and I'm confident that had the previous owner done more regular fluid changes I wouldn't be having these quirks.

I haven't seen anyone conclusively state whether that TSB actually did anything (TSB, not the recall) but it would be nice to know for 2004 owners.

jayclapp

There is a sticker on the underside of my hood that states the transmission and ECM calibration was done by a Lexus dealer in Nov 05 at 13,450 miles (also found in the Lexus records). I purchased the car in May 07 and the transmission couldn't be better in any aspect. I have no idea what it was like before that was done.