MJA1951

The numbers I want are irrelevant? Not sure how things are in Canada but I think a LOT of people are interested in what someone paid against the list price of a car when someone boasts about what a good deal they got but doesn't give specific numbers. If you got such a great deal why not just say it?

Did you purchase or lease?

How did you come up with "dealer invoice cost"? In the US there are many different variations of that depending on who is giving those numbers. Unless you have a number from the manufacturer, a dealer or website can put anything they want as their cost.

As far as "The dealer didn't make any money from me but from the 4% dealer hold back from Audi", unless you have access to the dealers records and also the true invoice costs from Audi, not sure how you can make that claim.

I don't think YOU know how this works!

angrypengu

I purchased.

You're clueless. You need to lookup commonly used terms in the car industry. In fact, given the numbers I have already given you, you should have been able to figure it all out.

Dealer invoice cost = cost the dealer pays for the car. These numbers matched up exactly to the dealer invoice cost of the A8L that the dealer received as a launch car. These numbers can be found here: https://carcostcanada.com/ Maybe you're one of those folks that believes everything is a lie, but sure enough, dealer invoice cost numbers matched up to exactly what the dealer paid for their launch car.

As far as explicit numbers go, what's the point? I can flat out tell you I got $9500 off of the car, but who cares? The MSRP of a a vehicle in Canada vs a vehicle in the US is different. Working with percentages and known margins is all that matters. Why do you care if I paid $150K for the car, or $100K for the car? Have you even taken into account currency differences? That's why margins matter, $ paid does not, especially when dealing with foreign (to you) currencies. Shall we talk about purchase margins and prices paid in GBP too? What about in SGD? Or EUR? Even if you account for the same currency, $ off of a car may include things like executive allowance discounts or other incentives. % off of MSRP is all that matters because they typically don't include those discounts, or discounts with other dealer fees, freight, aftermarket warranty.

You strike me as an angry bitter man who lacks a solid understanding of how the vehicle purchasing process works, and the numbers behind it. Start negotiating from a position of power next time, you'll do better in your car buying process.

As far as dealer holdback is concerned, my sales person told me. Could he have been lying? Maybe, but some of us aren't that cynical and it makes total sense given how the industry rewards dealers with flagship sales, and also because why else would a car dealership sell me something at next to 0 margin. Before you start believing aliens exist and alluding to the possibility that perhaps there was more margin on the table. I pitted 12 dealerships against each other. That's a very unlikely scenario that there was still a lot of margin left on the table.

Enjoy your 5LS, if you have purchased one.

angrypengu

Who owns an Audi without extended warranty? Come to think of it, I know folks here would happily own a Lexus flagship without extended warranty, but I would not. I'd happily buy the extended warranty directly from Lexus. It's dirt cheap compared to the factory underwritten ones for the German cars!

Ravill

angrypengu

Not defending Audi here because there is no way on this planet that I would ever state than an Audi is more reliable than a Lexus or the space shuttle, but you're also not comparing tit for tat. Comparing an S8 to a LS500 is unfair, just like comparing an S8 to a S550 is unfair. S cars are not mass produced vehicles and give up reliability for more power. If you want to compare a S8 to a S63 AMG, sure, go for it, and that is fair, but comparing an S8 to a LS500 is unfair. You want to compare an A8 to a LS500, sure, totally fair, but what you are doing is not necessarily a fair comparison.

Ravill

angrypengu

No the S8 shares its engine with a Bentley and competes with the S63 AMG. Your F sport LS has the same engine as the regular LS500. You're competing a mass produced engine versus a pretty rare commodity.

You're well within your rights to compare the two but imho that's unfair. It's like if I wanted to compare the reliability of a Camry versus a Maybach 62. I can but it'd be unfair.

95bat

You're saying it is unfair to compare a mass produced car to one that isn't because the mass produced car will be more reliable. If mass produced means more reliable, wouldn't that make the S63 AMG more reliable than the LS500? The Mercedes twin turbo 4.0L V8 is in nearly all high performance AMG models, not counting the baby AMG models like the C43, etc. The combination of AMG sales definitely surpasses the LS500 sales. Yet you say it is unfair to compare the LS500 to the S63, even though the twin turbo V6 in the LS is produced far less than the twin turbo V8 in the S63 AMG.

That would also make motors like the GM LT4 (650hp/650tq) more reliable than the LS500 as well. Between the CTS-V, Corvette, and Camaro that share the LT4, they definitely outsell the LS 500.

By the same logic, the GS F and RC F would be the least reliable of the bunch since those production/sales numbers are lower than the MB TT V8, GM LT4, and, by next year, the Lexus TT V6.

I think it all comes down to the fact that in today's car world, the S8 engine is nothing special as far as power numbers go, nor should it suffer in the reliability department because of it. Yes, it has a lot of horsepower, but it is nothing special anymore. It should no longer be expected that a car has more trouble because it makes 600hp. If even GM can produce more power than an S8 and do so reliably, there really is no excuse why Audi can't do it too. A reliable 600hp V8 is not that hard to do anymore. A lot cars are no longer made with cast pistons/rods/crank. Cars are coming from the factory with fully forged internals ready for high boost, high hp applications. It's a great time to be a car enthusiast!

angrypengu

You are again not comparing like to like. The twin turbo 4.0L V8 is different between each model range. I don't expect Lexus owners to know all the nuances between the MB engines, but more research would be helpful on your part before making such claims.

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

Lets keep on the thread topic sales numbers. Thank you!